Belgian blue whetstone vs. Kitayama, help needed

[Folace]

I have been reading the Interactive Guide to Straight Razor Shaving on the ShaveWiki about hones and honing. Never honed a razor by myself in my life, always asked other people to handle it for me, and now I wish to learn the process.

After reading different guides, I am leaning towards either a Belgian blue whetstone (BBW) or a Kitayama stone. Financially wise, the investment would be slightly the same. I picked the BBW rather than a Coticule because it is much less expensive and I could get a bigger stone for, I guess (maybe wrongly), the same advantages.

Considering I am a complete newbie at honing, what would be the best option? The issue here for me is getting a balance between the benefits of the stone for the razor, the ease of use (i.e. avoiding complicated moves), the less difficult learning curve.

What would you recommend me? And the answer could be another stone as well, I picked those two because they seemed to meet the best my specifications.

Thank you!

 

[kcb5150]

You would be way way way better off with a modestly sized coticule... I am a coti guy and trust me when I say that bbw is a pretty miserable experience as a honing solution usually. I would not wish setting a bevel with bbw on my worst enemy. The issue with it is it is slow as can be and does not top out the way a coti does. It's a false economy because you will just be wanting more performance.

 

[kcb5150]

Pm doorsch. He is in the EU and maybe he can steer you the right way for getting a stone with a good performance window.

 

[Gamma]

What kind of honing are you thinking of doing?
An 8k Kit is only going to give you touch-up capability - maybe. It depends on how the edge was honed prior.
If you are shaving with 8k edges - then an 8k touch up will suffice.
If you had a stellar Jnat edge - the 8k touch-up will be short.

 

[Folace]

What kind of honing are you thinking of doing?
An 8k Kit is only going to give you touch-up capability - maybe. It depends on how the edge was honed prior.
If you are shaving with 8k edges - then an 8k touch up will suffice.
If you had a stellar Jnat edge - the 8k touch-up will be short.

I am sorry I do not understand your post very well, I lack of elementary knowledge / notions to be able to reply correctly. I have no clue how they were honed, usually I sent them to a friend or to skilled people and get it back honed, without asking how they did it.

Basically I want to do the maintenance myself and hone my personal straight razors because I would like to move gradually from DE to SR shaving and be autonomous. Also I have tons of old razors I have gathered which I could use to train the process, so no problem if I do it wrong at first and damage one of them.

Maybe a hone is not the good option and I should seek for something else, like a paddle strop?

 

[Gamma]

Ok, gotcha.

If the razor had, originally, an edge finished to - say - 12k (or higher), then an 8k stone isn't going to bring back the 12k edge.


Getting a hone is a fine idea, but it should be thought through so you can make a wise purchase.



A paddle strop with abrasive pastes will work also.

 

[kcb5150]

I still say get a coticule. Even a smaller one is hugely more capable than a bbw. Like if you just used a bbw, I'd say you would need a separate bevel setting hone and a dedicated strop loaded up with paste to push the edge a bit after the bbw so it isn't really saving you money in the end. The coti would be able to do everything but correct damage.

 

[Kcnwea]

There is a ton of knowledge over at coticule.be pertaining to honing with bbw vs Coticule I recommend you go over there and take a look. If you were just going to be doing touch ups or needing to refresh a razor you could always get away with a Naniwa 12k super stone. That one stone is pretty cheep and could keep your edges going indefinatley, unless you somehow damaged the edge.

 

[Folace]

Ok, gotcha.

If the razor had, originally, an edge finished to - say - 12k (or higher), then an 8k stone isn't going to bring back the 12k edge.


Getting a hone is a fine idea, but it should be thought through so you can make a wise purchase.



A paddle strop with abrasive pastes will work also.

I think I understand but I am not sure if I will ever be able to tell or know the edge finish of my razors, which is a mix of new, NOS and even one restored vintage. I would not dare trying the dozen older vintage ones, though, they are obviously not shave ready.

I just want to manage to keep the razors shave ready by myself

I still say get a coticule. Even a smaller one is hugely more capable than a bbw. Like if you just used a bbw, I'd say you would need a separate bevel setting hone and a dedicated strop loaded up with paste to push the edge a bit after the bbw so it isn't really saving you money in the end. The coti would be able to do everything but correct damage.

Okay I see what you mean. The Coticules are more expensive so I can only afford a stone much smaller than a BBW. In my mind, I am afraid this smaller size would make the process too complicated for newbie like me, but maybe I am wrong.

 

[Folace]

There is a ton of knowledge over at coticule.be pertaining to honing with bbw vs Coticule I recommend you go over there and take a look. If you were just going to be doing touch ups or needing to refresh a razor you could always get away with a Naniwa 12k super stone. That one stone is pretty cheep and could keep your edges going indefinatley, unless you somehow damaged the edge.

Well my goal is not to be some sort of a honing master neither restoring old damage blades, like you said I wish to do the maintenance of the razors alone, with a good balance between ease of use and performing results. I prefer to pay a little bit more and have something more convenient to use, and with the same or better results.

 

[Kcnwea]

Another option would be lapping film

 

[Gamma]

I just want to manage to keep the razors shave ready by myself

Yes - What I'm trying to say is that there is no way to know if the 8k Kit is going to work for you in this regard.
Same for any stone really, although a 12k of some sort might be a better bet.
So - the possibility of needing to get another stone always exists.

All the options you listed above have worked for someone at some time.
The question is - which one will work for you? Only way to know is to try. The Kit 8k isn't expensive, neither are the other options.
A tube of crox costs 5 bucks and it'll last a lifetime, all you need to use it is an old cloth webbing belt or a slab of balsa wood of some sort.
That's probably the cheapest long-term fix... there are a lot of options, and no rules.

 

[kn4wd]

gamma, would the apache strata not fit his bill? the reviews sure look promising. from bevel to shave. be more outlay but if he would need only the one stone for touchups and then if he wanted the bevel then the 1 or 2 k. nelsons review was really impressive to me

 

[SliceOfLife]

Touch up honing a razor is about the simplest sharpening process you can imagine, and smaller hones don't really complicate it much. There are plenty of vintage razor hones out there that these days people wouldn't consider anything more than slurry stones. Doing low grit work on small hones is not fun, but finishing and touching up on them doesn't strike me as requiring anything more than slightly more care and time than required on larger hones. I think the "value" in large, less effective stones like CNats and the modern slates people buy is a lot less of a value than most would think; I'd touch up exclusively on my 40x40mm vintage coticule I got out of a 70 y/o barber bag before a 8x3" Cnat. And I doubt I'm alone in that.

For touch up honing, I say get a smaller good stone, don't try and get a cheaper large stone.

I wouldn't recommend the Apache strata to a new honer until we get a few more opinions on it. (No offense to the Zulu hone owners, but I was glad Bayamontate said it before I had to; I frankly think people got suckered into buying those stones for many times what they're worth by one or two guys posting glowing reviews, the only things I've heard about those stones lately is people trying and failing to get rid of them on eBay for far less than they paid. It wasn't the first time this happened and it won't be the last.)
I've got an Apache strata incoming and I plan on reviewing it as soon as it gets here, and if some of the more established members want to try it out for the cost of shipping both ways afterwards, I'll be happy to send it out to them. Depending on its performance, it could be a very good option. Though the 8" stones are quite pricey, the smaller ones (when available) seem to be much more reasonably priced for someone looking for an affordable stone to use for touching up.

 

[gary haywood]

The cheapest and easiest way would be to use ccrox oxide on the under side of your cotton strop if you have one. Seriously this can keep your shave ready edges going for a long time. Mate of mine uses this method? He said he has,nt touched his coticule in two years, and he won't until he needs too.

gary

 

[Gamma]

^
Agreed.

But - if paste is the choice....

I'd reccommend the TI white paste 1st I think. I always forget about it because the term 'Crox' is so deeply embedded in my brain.

 

[Gamma]

gamma, would the apache strata not fit his bill? the reviews sure look promising. from bevel to shave. be more outlay but if he would need only the one stone for touchups and then if he wanted the bevel then the 1 or 2 k. nelsons review was really impressive to me

I haven't tried the stone so I could not reccomend it. Even though I know Nelson's thoughts, through posts and emails - I would not be comfortable telling someone to use something I have not used extensively myself.

Most stones work - the Apache seems to work well for Nelson. Knowing him and his edges, I'm thinking I'd like the stone too.

As Ian noted, the Zulu was, for me, a bust. But - some people like it.
So, who knows. If someone likes it, then that's that I guess. I sold both of mine. Tested another and that one didn't do it for me either.
I don't know who dubbed that stone 'the new Escher' but IMO - they were way way way off base.
But - that's just my thoughts on it. Maybe their example was different/better/whatever.

 

[kn4wd]

well, the stones I am sure would vary, I have a bunch of soft arkies I use on my knives, not all were created the same ,kind of a mystery, but once you know the stone then its a bit different as far as getting the best from it.

 

[gary haywood]

^
Agreed.

But - if paste is the choice....

I'd reccommend the TI white paste 1st I think. I always forget about it because the term 'Crox' is so deeply embedded in my brain.

Yes the ti pate rasoir on hanger is brill for touch ups, it has more humph than crox , I used both.

gary

 

[Folace]

Do you think I could use a thing like that with pastes? Mentioned here: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/422779-Corsican-Wild-Fennel

So basically, from what I understand, there is not a single stone that could work for any (or let’s say most or many) straight razor blades; one must have 73648 different stones because one razor can be 4k or 8k or 12k or whatnot Do not take me wrong I am not mocking here, not at all. When I see videos of people honing their razors or knives, I can perfectly understand the fun and excitement of it. I wish I could do it too. Just that honing looks a very complicated issue, and money consuming.

Anyway thank you guys, I was about to shoot a stone purchase and this thread prevented me to make a mistake.