Becoming a Honing Apprentice

[snu164]

I'm more into safety razor shaving, but honing is definitely one of those Man Skills I think I need to learn. Additionally, I bought a 1901 Kampfe Bros razor with two blades in not-shave-ready condition that I would like to restore.

To get myself started, I purchased a Norton kit (220/1000, 4000/8000 and flattening stone) and a strop (both linen and leather). For practice, I broke the bank and bought a $10 Gold Dollar Razor.

I read the stickies, watched the videos, and went to work on my GD razor. After what seemed like hours of lapping, I felt I had flat stones. I then started the bevel on the 1000 stone and worked my way up. When I was done, I had a razor capable of shaving arm hair, but too dull for face shaving.

I went at it again, this time I was much more thorough on the 1000 step. The end results were a razor much sharper, but not really shave ready.

What I want to know is, am I chasing the dragon trying to sharpen the GD razor? I know it is the laughing stock of straight razors for a reason, is one of the reasons that it will not take as sharp of a hone? Or I am I still lacking technique?

 

[BakerAndBadger]

Hi and welcome to the wonderful world of rock rubbing.

GD's are very capable of taking a good edge however you might (please read almost definitely) will need to attack the heel with a dremel. The heel stabiliser or shoulder or something technical stops you getting the whole edge flat on the stone so needs to be removed in most cases.
Have you got a shave ready razor to compare to? This really helps when starting out.
I don't think that many people will say you can get a shaveable edge off an 8K stone. You'll probably need to get some film or a higher grit stone to finish on - that might be your problem.
Personally I was honing razors from day one and thinking that they were shave ready until I decided to compare to my Whipped Dog straight which was truely shave ready - the difference was quite astounding.
Now I can feel when the bevel is set by the way the edge flicks the fingerprint on my ring finger - OK, not easy to explain but if you imagine putting the razor at 45 degrees (or less probably - I'm at work so can't check out the real position) against the finger pad and pulling your finger across the edge in a perpendicular direction to the blade (so you don't cut yourself) it has a certain feel to it on the part where your fingerprint is - you'll be able to shave your arm hair at skin level quite easily when you reach that point.
Once I've got the bevel set then it's off to my coticule to refine the edge and scratches.
You have to be certain that the bevel is well set otherwise you'll just be polishing an edge that won't cut.
The bevel is THE most important thing.

Oh and another thing about GD's - I got one this weekend that was so badly ground (assymetrical) that it will be difficult to get it shave ready unless I really go at it on one side - the bevel needs to be equal on both sides of the blade. Imagine an isoceles (spelling?) triangle - the two long sides are identical - that's how the bevel should be more or less.

My recommendation would be to get yourself a balsa strop from Whipped Dog and a shave ready razor from the same. Then you'll be able to use the CROX instead of film to finish your blade and check against what Larry has done with the other razor. You'll be able to shave and judge your progress all for a reasonably small amount of cash.

Hope that this thread isn't too rambly.

Paul

 

[seattleshaver]

GD razors (correct me if I'm wrong) are stainless so it takes more honing to get them sharp than a typical vintage high carbon razor.

I have one and I got it just as sharp as the razor I got from Whipped Dog. I don't have a Dremel but I've managed to sharpen mine without trying to remove the stabilizer. Just make sure that the edge is touching when you hone even if you to vary the angle a little.

 

[Proinsias]

I've honed up 4 or 5 Gold Dollar 66's without any modding or dremel work, just stones.

Some say if you can't get a decent shave off the Norton 8k going further up the grits is little more than a polishing a turd, others say going beyond the 8k is necessary. Either way you really want to max out each stone before moving on. Personally I reckon you should shave off the 1k with a good stopping to ensure you're getting the best from it, then the 4k, then the 8k. If you don't find huge jumps in performance the problem is not the stones.

There's a wealth of info out there on using the Norton 4/8 if you poke around.

Is your flattening stone flat? sounds daft but I've heard a few people say the Norton flattening stone needs lapping out the box.

 

[kirk 988]

Gold Dolalrs are carbon not stainless and i agree with Paul.

 

[tinkersd]

I have 4 GD razors and they are some of the finest shavers I own, to put that in perspective I can only afford to buy Str8 razors of $35 or less, sometimes they do present so problem with bevel setting but after that hump they polish up very nicely and shave beautifuly!!
Their are some GD's out there with horrific grind geometry, but for the money when you get one of the honable hones it's quite a steal!!

Have a great shave on me!!

tinkersd

 

[Alum of Potash]

Think I'm with Proinsias here. A 325x DMT is going to be the ticket for lapping those stones on a regular basis, the 325x DMT also serving to get rid of chips on eBay junkers, if & when the time comes. Beyond this, a normal conservative sequence would run something as follows: 1k Norton, then 4k Norton, then a Belgian coticule (or the 8k Norton in this instance), followed by a judicious hitting or non-hitting of the green crox stuff prior to leather. Stick with the 1k until until you can cut arm hair freely and equally along the edge's entire length, before moving upwards.

 

[Kentos]

Gold Dollars have a nice following here. They can hone up as well as almost any other razor of a similar grind. Don't buy into the propaganda that they are "junk"

 

[Legion]

Gold Dollars have a nice following here. They can hone up as well as almost any other razor of a similar grind. Don't buy into the propaganda that they are "junk"

Agreed, but IMO opinion they are not a good razor for a newbie to learn to hone on. They have too many weird variables, most of which can be overcome if you know what you are doing, but could trip you up badly if you are still learning.

I would buy a cheapish vintage razor off BST, in good condition and shave ready. Learn to shave with it. Then, when you are ready, kill the edge on glass and hone it back to where it was.

 

[johnmrson]

Gold Dollars can be made into really good shavers. I've honed a few and all but one needed some work to make it sit flat on the hone. You should be able to comfortably shave arm hair after the 1000 grit. If you can't then keep going until you can.

johnmrson's rules of honing

1. Set the bevel properly
2. See rule One.

 

[jpcwon]

I have 2 GD's that I bought when I wanted to learn how to hone. One took a wicked edge, and the other one I threw out it was so bad. So it goes to show you that there are good ones to be had out there!

+1 on setting the bevel properly. Once you do that, it makes the rest of the honing process a much easier proposition.,

 

[Seraphim]

GDs are worthless!
















Until you hone them up properly....

Honing isn't rocket science (despite what some say). Just rub that razor on your hone until it's sharp, then polish it up on the higher grits.

Easy as pie.

Especially is you use lapping films to hone.

 

[Kentos]

Agreed, but IMO opinion they are not a good razor for a newbie to learn to hone on. They have too many weird variables, most of which can be overcome if you know what you are doing, but could trip you up badly if you are still learning.

I would buy a cheapish vintage razor off BST, in good condition and shave ready. Learn to shave with it. Then, when you are ready, kill the edge on glass and hone it back to where it was.

Agree 100%.

If anything the low cost of the GD wouldn't kill the new Honer if they fail miserably to hone one up, or destroy it in the process of honing. But for the new shaver a straight from China Air Mail GD isn't a good choice.

 

[professorchaos]

Gold Dollars can be made into really good shavers. I've honed a few and all but one needed some work to make it sit flat on the hone. You should be able to comfortably shave arm hair after the 1000 grit. If you can't then keep going until you can.

johnmrson's rules of honing

1. Set the bevel properly
2. See rule One.

That's everything to you need to know about honing. Once you get that, the rest is easy.