As a veteran of the commercial food service industry in my youth, I salute you. No offense intended.
Avoiding confusion: Hand-tied should be Artisan-tied
- Thread starter apshaveco
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You'll never get people to agree on a standard terminology for this topic. I've questioned the handmade issue and it wasn't well received. Even handmade is unclear (hand tools or machine tools).
A few years ago during the annual B&B awards, they tried to implement standard brush terminology on loft and a few other measurements. I don't think anyone adhered to them or implemented them into their listings or discussions.
Heck, there isn't even a standard classification or definition on Badger hair grades. And don't even get me started on Artisan.
A few years ago during the annual B&B awards, they tried to implement standard brush terminology on loft and a few other measurements. I don't think anyone adhered to them or implemented them into their listings or discussions.
Heck, there isn't even a standard classification or definition on Badger hair grades. And don't even get me started on Artisan.
Owen Bawn
Garden party cupcake scented
Wisdom.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
OMG, I'm leaving in a few minutes, headed for an artisan fill up of my gas tank. We might meet at the boutique. Look for me; I had this morning an artisan shave.
Happy shaves,
Jim
Oxford dictionary:
"a worker in a skilled trade, especially one that involves making things by hand"
Merriam Webster:
"a worker who practices a trade or handicraft, a skilled artisan"
Both also say this:
"a person or company that produces something (such as cheese or wine) in limited quantities often using traditional methods"
So, I guess this would apply to the factory worker in China who makes maybe $2 per hour, or a person who makes knots in Germany for a bigger company, who maybe makes $20 per hour; or a guy who makes small amounts of knots, guess his wages are probably in the $.50 area...
I always liked the term "the knots are handmade by .... craftsmen/women" (put Chinese or German, or American where the .... are), personally, I do not care for the term artisan as it is used for all kinds of stuff....from really good stuff (brushes, knives, knitted pullovers) to a bread/cheese maker. Craftsman/woman is what I prefer.
"a worker in a skilled trade, especially one that involves making things by hand"
Merriam Webster:
"a worker who practices a trade or handicraft, a skilled artisan"
Both also say this:
"a person or company that produces something (such as cheese or wine) in limited quantities often using traditional methods"
So, I guess this would apply to the factory worker in China who makes maybe $2 per hour, or a person who makes knots in Germany for a bigger company, who maybe makes $20 per hour; or a guy who makes small amounts of knots, guess his wages are probably in the $.50 area...
I always liked the term "the knots are handmade by .... craftsmen/women" (put Chinese or German, or American where the .... are), personally, I do not care for the term artisan as it is used for all kinds of stuff....from really good stuff (brushes, knives, knitted pullovers) to a bread/cheese maker. Craftsman/woman is what I prefer.
Funny, when adding the auto manufacturing hand tightening illustrative example to my above post the same thing popped into my mind as we would likely prefer robotic assembly that is done to consistent standards.
Yes as there is no observable automation in the Chinese factory process, it's all done by hand. A possible significant difference between a higher volume Chinese factory and a low volume custom manufacturer is the way the manual labor is divided up among workers/artisans. In the factory, and you can see this in the cosmetic brush factory video in my first post, process steps are divided among different workers who man the various production stations along the manufacturing and assembly line. Each worker does one or two things again and again.
In a small volume custom manufacturing operation the worker or artisan may handle everyone or most of those steps in sequence. Neither one necessarily delivers better or worse quality than the other - that is dependent on worker training and for the factory labor standards (amount of time allowed for each task). The factory will clearly be more efficient than the artisan, Ford figured this out in the 1920's. What can drive a difference is that a small shop producing custom $100 - $500 (e.g.Varlet) brushes can afford to allocate a lot more time to each task to get it just right while the factory producing our $10 brushes needs tight labor standards. All the other factors noted in my earlier post such as quality of materials, adhesives and design also come into play in determining the relative value of the various shaving brushes. While hand tying knots, per my earlier post, is irrelevant to brush quality there are plenty of areas, such as the above items, customization options and the time spent achieving perfection, that a higher end manufacturer can focus on to highlight quality. In a true artisan shop, such as yours, you are able to highlight the highly skilled individual(s) who create each product.
Thinking out loud perhaps this is the key differentiator between artisan and factory manufacturing. In the former a single highly skilled craftsman creates the product from start to finish while in the factory each worker only completes his or her small part of the manufacturing process. The craftsman or woman is focused on quality while the factory worker focused on quantity driven by labor standards. What do you think?
Given the range of personal preferences and YMMV will leave it to each B&B member to decide what offers the optimal value as some of us just want a good quality tool for lather while others prefer luxurious materials that are crafted as works of art as a collectable with a range of preference in between. The great thing about this hobby is that there is something for everybody with lots of quality brushes that last years for under $20 at one end of the spectrum to an excellent range of higher end products from custom manufacturers, such as yourself, for those who want a more luxurious experience and/or collectable.
Which shaving brush makers hand-tie their own knots today? Varlet, Declaration Grooming, Wald, Mozingo, Turn N Shave, and a couple of others that aren’t generally available for sale? Do you guys know of any others?
I’m not a brush guy, particularly, but as I understand it, the art of tieing a shaving brush knot involves hair selection, correct orientation (no black tips), packing the knot, and shaping it. Through this they can achieve a quality level and density of packing that gives the knot their desired characteristics - backbone, flow-through, softness, tip-feel. Then they set the knot into the handle to their preferred loft, which is also part of creating the knot’s characteristics. Since each batch of hair is different the brush maker should pack and set the knot to different specifications so that the knot works best for the hair.
Calling it ‘tieing’ is a bit misleading because tieing something around the assembled knot to hold it in place isn’t really the point. Neither is the fact that it is done by hand. The point is the selection of hair and the skill and care that goes into assembly of the hairs into a knot.
I’ve used three of the five brands I mentioned above who hand-tie knots in-house. I believe if you used a Wald or Mozingo badger brush, for example, you would easily recognise the difference that hand-tieing the knot with care and attention to detail makes. You should get a knot with uniformly white tips, you will feel the intended amount of backbone with soft tips and zero scritch, and both of these brush makers use hair that does not gel at all. Their knots feel very different from a factory produced badger knot.
It definitely does come down to the skill of the knot maker, and their attention to quality and detail. Not all of the brands I mentioned are the same quality. But I think you can’t achieve the highest level of quality without hand-tieing the knot in-house.
That has been my experience anyway.
I’m not a brush guy, particularly, but as I understand it, the art of tieing a shaving brush knot involves hair selection, correct orientation (no black tips), packing the knot, and shaping it. Through this they can achieve a quality level and density of packing that gives the knot their desired characteristics - backbone, flow-through, softness, tip-feel. Then they set the knot into the handle to their preferred loft, which is also part of creating the knot’s characteristics. Since each batch of hair is different the brush maker should pack and set the knot to different specifications so that the knot works best for the hair.
Calling it ‘tieing’ is a bit misleading because tieing something around the assembled knot to hold it in place isn’t really the point. Neither is the fact that it is done by hand. The point is the selection of hair and the skill and care that goes into assembly of the hairs into a knot.
I’ve used three of the five brands I mentioned above who hand-tie knots in-house. I believe if you used a Wald or Mozingo badger brush, for example, you would easily recognise the difference that hand-tieing the knot with care and attention to detail makes. You should get a knot with uniformly white tips, you will feel the intended amount of backbone with soft tips and zero scritch, and both of these brush makers use hair that does not gel at all. Their knots feel very different from a factory produced badger knot.
It definitely does come down to the skill of the knot maker, and their attention to quality and detail. Not all of the brands I mentioned are the same quality. But I think you can’t achieve the highest level of quality without hand-tieing the knot in-house.
That has been my experience anyway.
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Have a look at the Chinese manufacturing process above, it supports the original post that almost everyone "hand ties" their knots. It's just an interim step to maintain the work-in-progress knot (after hair selection, packing and shaping) prior to the application of glue and any permanent mechanical attachment. The initial tie is removed from the final product.
Hand tying is irrelevant to brush quality. You are correct that the other items such as hair type, quality, density, dimensions and the skill of the craftsman/worker in shaping and packing the knot are.
We both posted at almost the same time, see my post immediately above. Your view that "It definitely does come down to the skill of the knot maker, and their attention to quality and detail." is absolutely correct. It is consistent with my prior post that "the key differentiator between artisan and factory manufacturing is in the former a single highly skilled craftsman creates the product from start to finish while in the factory each worker only completes his or her small part of the manufacturing process. The craftsman or woman is focused on quality while the factory worker focused on quantity driven by labor standards."
Many are getting hung up on hand tying when the real differentiatior, in addition to materials, is between a factory workers focused on quantity versus an artisan who executes the end-to-end manufacturing process with a focus on quality.
Yes. Aren’t we agreeing? I was responding more to other posts in this thread that seemed to be veering away from the point that ‘hand-tieing’ or ‘hand-assembly’ is a skilled task that definitely differentiates brushes, and that “artisan hand-tied” (or whatever we call it) means something important.
Believe we are in agreement with the only difference being the way we are using some of the terms.
While most brushes appear to be made by hand and hand tied at one point in the process we are highlighting the difference between a brush made almost entirely by a single highly skilled craftsperson, focused on quality, versus one made (still by hand) by many workers on an assembly line where the focus is more on quantity. You are right that this means something important.
Yeah. I used the term ‘hand-tied in-house’ as opposed to ‘hand-tied in a factory in China and shipped to the brush maker to glue into a handle’. The first one is what people really mean when they call a brush ‘hand-tied’. Anybody who calls a brush ‘hand-tied’ when they mean the latter is trying to misrepresent their product.
Almost everybody is trying to misrepresent their product. it's called marketing.
As long as there are meaningless silly terms like boutique, artisan, small batch, hand crafted etc which have no standard industrial definition, it'll keep on happening too.
Maybe I should have a Craft beer to calm down, or maybe a Micro Craft beer. No - I think I'll have a Nano Craft beer.
On second thought, I don't really want a nasty tasting beer that has so much hops smashed into it that it tastes like drinking the run off from my styptic pencil.
As long as there are meaningless silly terms like boutique, artisan, small batch, hand crafted etc which have no standard industrial definition, it'll keep on happening too.
Maybe I should have a Craft beer to calm down, or maybe a Micro Craft beer. No - I think I'll have a Nano Craft beer.
On second thought, I don't really want a nasty tasting beer that has so much hops smashed into it that it tastes like drinking the run off from my styptic pencil.
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