I been seeing some gents using Arks as base stone with Tomo's on Youtube. Has anyone tried this with any success? I have more Arks than anything else and I just doled out a pretty penny on some Jnats. The concept is interesting and has anyone "on this forum" done this with success?
Arkansas and Tomo nahura?
- Thread starter sexy beast
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I've used tomo nagura on a hard ark once or twice but I don't remember anything standing out as amazing, what you'd expect from them i guess. Tam O'shanter slurry on novaculites is amazing though
For lower grits I'd absolutly agree with this. I think a fine koma or a little chunk of kitta to make a really light would probably not damage it too much but there really isn't much of a point. Idon't think it's really going to speed it up or change the polish much.Tam O'shanter slurry is where it's at if you want slurry on an ark/ llyn idwal/ charnley. Ifeel like it leave a super fine but still really aggressive(i only use it for knives). I learned that trick from @cotedupy who learned it from someone else here but who escapes my memory.
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I may try my finest tomo on my blue-black Norton translucent. Right now, all my razors are honed. My two refurbished razor will be back most likely in 2 weeks. Thanks for the input to all of you.
Let us know how it goes.
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- #8
Will do!
I've tried using just about every hard enough stone as a base stone for jnat naguras. Hard arkansas stones can work but it isnt quite as nice feeling as a jnat. It should be very "burnished" or will become so with fine naguras. It is not fast and can cause some typical arkansas striations under mag you wouldn't get on a jnat only process.
Surprisingly my favorite non jnat base stone is my ILR, it works just fine. Maybe a few extra stray scratches on the bevel under magnification but fine. It isn't fast but will make a nice crisp edge.
I've had alot of fun using random stones as base stones, I certainly recommend giving it a try. The worst case scenario is the razor edge isn't good, which just means you have more excuses to hone!
Surprisingly my favorite non jnat base stone is my ILR, it works just fine. Maybe a few extra stray scratches on the bevel under magnification but fine. It isn't fast but will make a nice crisp edge.
I've had alot of fun using random stones as base stones, I certainly recommend giving it a try. The worst case scenario is the razor edge isn't good, which just means you have more excuses to hone!
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I have ILR premium stone. It's a great stone. The tomo it came with I really couldn't do much with it. Thats also another possibility.
Since I don't own a nice large jnat base stone, just hand held or skinny ones, I found myself testing out all my other options for base stones. I tried slates, rozsutec, arkansas, Charnley, Lynn idwal, thuringian, Dota creek ect...
The Dota creek and ILR are what I liked most using mikawa or other jnat naguras. They will get close to the same shaving edge but the honing feel just isn't as nice as on my jnats. The Dota feels too "hollow" and the ILR doesn't get enough drag feedback compared to a jnat base.
I suspect Arks are too hard to give you the "magic" of a nagura progression. You also won't get the slurry building like you do on a Jnat since the Ark isn't gonna let anything loose, unlike Jnats so no progressive particle reduction either.
Different rocks that work differently, although there is not reason why you couldn't. I'd think one of those 12K Cnats might be a fun base for a nagura progression because they don't burnish so much. Might not be an improvement either though.
Different rocks that work differently, although there is not reason why you couldn't. I'd think one of those 12K Cnats might be a fun base for a nagura progression because they don't burnish so much. Might not be an improvement either though.
Any abrasive can be put on any other abrasive...
You can put diamond slurry on an ark if you want to.... the question is why would you want to?
Yes, it can be done and there will be a result.
IME, it's not a good honing feeling and the results weren't useful.
Same for Coticule slurry and a host of other things on Arks. Almost any option will have some sort of effect on the steel but there are always better ways to get 'there'. Arks work just fine on their own actually, if you 'need' to use slurry on one you're doing it wrong.
Nagura slurry on an Ark never gets where it needs to go because part of the Jnat equation is missing. The edge doesn't get to where it needs to go either, same reason.
Hardness differences aren't the story. although a harder stone of any type will take the slurry further than a softer one.
Nagura slurry on a slate, or Chug, or even a Naniwa synth isn't really something helpful for honing razors. for tools or knives to some degree there can be some theoretical advantages. Maybe. A 'thing' about 12-15 years ago was to use Tsushima Black on Snow White to sharpen cutlery.
I do initial nagura testing on a very hard but also fairly inert stone... basanite, a low grade obsidian, some call it a Lydian.
It doesn't serve as a hone so much as it's sort of a neutral testing ground. I can see what's what to some degree but I won't know what the nagura will do on a Jnat until I test it one one.
Understanding how Jnats work is key here.
Arks and Jnats are literally apples and oranges, the crystalline structure is wildly different.
Both contain silica but there are a gazillion forms of silica...
Honing on a Jnat is not just rolling Nagura slurry around on a flat surface. the process involves a delicate interaction between the nagura slurry and the particles from the Honzan and learning to use that 'mix' to one's advantage.
So yes, it can be done, of course. Anyone can put any abrasive on any stone.
I think it was @Neurotopia that used to put a dash of fine Alox in his Coticule slurry.
You can put diamond slurry on an ark if you want to.... the question is why would you want to?
Yes, it can be done and there will be a result.
IME, it's not a good honing feeling and the results weren't useful.
Same for Coticule slurry and a host of other things on Arks. Almost any option will have some sort of effect on the steel but there are always better ways to get 'there'. Arks work just fine on their own actually, if you 'need' to use slurry on one you're doing it wrong.
Nagura slurry on an Ark never gets where it needs to go because part of the Jnat equation is missing. The edge doesn't get to where it needs to go either, same reason.
Hardness differences aren't the story. although a harder stone of any type will take the slurry further than a softer one.
Nagura slurry on a slate, or Chug, or even a Naniwa synth isn't really something helpful for honing razors. for tools or knives to some degree there can be some theoretical advantages. Maybe. A 'thing' about 12-15 years ago was to use Tsushima Black on Snow White to sharpen cutlery.
I do initial nagura testing on a very hard but also fairly inert stone... basanite, a low grade obsidian, some call it a Lydian.
It doesn't serve as a hone so much as it's sort of a neutral testing ground. I can see what's what to some degree but I won't know what the nagura will do on a Jnat until I test it one one.
Understanding how Jnats work is key here.
Arks and Jnats are literally apples and oranges, the crystalline structure is wildly different.
Both contain silica but there are a gazillion forms of silica...
Honing on a Jnat is not just rolling Nagura slurry around on a flat surface. the process involves a delicate interaction between the nagura slurry and the particles from the Honzan and learning to use that 'mix' to one's advantage.
So yes, it can be done, of course. Anyone can put any abrasive on any stone.
I think it was @Neurotopia that used to put a dash of fine Alox in his Coticule slurry.
Yea, I have tried it used all kinds of slurry, Jnat, coticule, slates, synthetic nano grits and even metal polish.
It does not work like it works on a Jnat and it is hard to improve on a good Ark edge, for me. My best edges come from a 1k wet and dry finished ark stone face, wet stone and 3-4 drops of Smiths.
Arks are stone face finished dependent, that is what counts.
Try it, what’s the worst that can happen? You spend a few minutes on 600 W&D to refinish your Ark.
The more I use Jnats, the less I use nagura, and get smoking edges on thin diamond slurry, but then I have been on a minimalist honing kick for a year of so, 800 King, Suehiro 10k, Jnat with diamond slurry, sometimes skip the 10k depending on the base stone.
It does not work like it works on a Jnat and it is hard to improve on a good Ark edge, for me. My best edges come from a 1k wet and dry finished ark stone face, wet stone and 3-4 drops of Smiths.
Arks are stone face finished dependent, that is what counts.
Try it, what’s the worst that can happen? You spend a few minutes on 600 W&D to refinish your Ark.
The more I use Jnats, the less I use nagura, and get smoking edges on thin diamond slurry, but then I have been on a minimalist honing kick for a year of so, 800 King, Suehiro 10k, Jnat with diamond slurry, sometimes skip the 10k depending on the base stone.
