are NOS Personna "Super Platinum Chrome" blades P74*s in disguise?

[awa54]

There is an eBay seller asserting that these SPC Personnas are actually Personna 74* blades in different packaging... This sounds a bit dubious to me, do any of you folks know the truth of this?

The seller's assertion is based on the word Tungsten being used on the back of the package and his claim to have gotten ten shaves from these blades...

 

[Sir Lurkalot]

Unless that claim can be verified through other means, I would say it is just the seller's assumption.Go to this link: http://www.bruceonshaving.com/2010/07/30/personna-74-the-ultimate-razor-blade/


Ok I found the ebay listing and those are not Personna 74's but they may have been a derivative of the 74's. I have NOS Personna 74's in in an unopened package. The 74's were Tungsten alloy and the edges were coated with titanium to give it the durability it's known for. The Super Platinums were coated with a polymer. Titanium is not a polymer.

Who is a metallurgist on this forum?

 

[awa54]

As far as tungsten content goes, there are certainly several stainless steel formulas in current use that contain tungsten. Since razor blade companies are not big on divulging the steel they use (unlike knife makers), we will probably never know what the alloy in the 74* was.... Unless someone who worked for Personna during that time has a record of the formulation and is willing to share it.

The polymer coating claimed for these ersatz P74*s is likely the same one used on the coated version of the 74* (coated Personna blades feature the word "Super" on the packaging IIRC). The platinum and chrome are most likely edge coatings as well (although chrome is a necessary ingredient in all stainless steel).

It seems like if there was a double-secret P74* clone out there it would long ago have been outed on the forums. Until more proof surfaces, I am going to assume that the blades up for auction are a classic case of huckster selling and remind us that "caveat emptor" should always be our watchword

 

[Planbee]

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/301518-Are-these-the-same-as-Personna-74s

Gives a good discussion

 

[Sir Lurkalot]

I am going to assume that the blades up for auction are a classic case of huckster selling and remind us that "caveat emptor" should always be our watchword

I agree with your conclusion.

 

[Maxime D.]

The real P74 were Tungsten with Titanium coating.

 

[awa54]

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/301518-Are-these-the-same-as-Personna-74s

Gives a good discussion

Well, this would imply that the blades in question *are* P74*s....

I guess somebody will need to buy some and report back to the rest of us

Thanks for that link, I guess I didn't choose very good key words when I searched

 

[Planbee]

I suspect they are not. Personna explicitly differentiated the 74 with the titanium coating apart from blades with a platinum coating in their ads.

from: http://www.bruceonshaving.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Personna-74-advertisement.jpg

 

[BroJohn]

are NOS Personna "Super Platinum Chrome" blades P74*s in disguise?

The short answer is 'maybe'.

I have many Personnas from the '70s and am convinced that most of these are the same as the 74*s, though unmarked as such. I believe (but am not definitively certain) that the branding of Personna blades as 74*s with the attending hoopla was just an advertising campaign for their razor blade product. That the blades for a period of time both before and after the campaign were the same product. The 74* has a coloration of a gray-ish/tan-ish and the '70s Personnas that I have show the same off-gray color. Not very authoritive, I know. <shrug> I have other '70s Personnas that are of the more conventional silvery-gray stainless-steel coloring and definitely aren't the 74*.

BTW, I don't think that the 74*s are worth $3 or $4 per each. IMO, anything over $1 is exorbitant.


edit: awa, drop me a pm wit you snail mail addy and I'll send you some ersatz 74*s.

-- John Gehman

 

[Maxime D.]

What if they created a super blade that last forever to gain customers ? What if they quietly replaced the super blade with a copycat in a similar packaging but shorter in life and still keep the customers ? Wouldnt that be a genious marketing move ?

 

[Early Morning]

What if they created a super blade that last forever to gain customers ? What if they quietly replaced the super blade with a copycat in a similar packaging but shorter in life and still keep the customers ?

Maybe there was once such a blade. I tried to attach an old newspaper clipping of the 'new Wilkinson Sword blade' that debuted in 1973.* The original advertising claimed that it had harder edges than Tungsten Steel.

*There were two Wilkinson blades called the 'New'. The first was available in Europe in 1969. This version had 'New Wilkinson Sword' printed on the blade. It had the famed chromium edge.

 

[Maxime D.]

Speaking in terms of statistics tungsten is the hardest and strongest :-/ If it's stronger, it's not from this planet lol

http://adland.tv/commercials/personna-74-tungsten-steel-1972-030-usa

here's a link to a publicity from 1972 :-D

 

[Early Morning]

Wilkinson was alluding to the coatings, one of which contained a chromium-ceramic compound (there were three).* Boron Carbide sounds good to me, but I imagine it was probably some other ceramic material. Their claim was that it retained a sharper edge. Anyway, they specifically mentioned that it is harder than Tungsten, that was the warrant. I would say they were trying to one-up the Personna 74 in advertising (the coatings).

*The American and International version of the 'new Wilkinson Sword blade' (the second blade by this name) debuted in 1973. This version had three diagonal lines printed on the blade.

I am not sure what those Super Platinum Chrome blades are, but it sounds to me like Personna wanted a coating that is less brittle than titanium. The wording on the back of the blister pack implies that tungsten was added to the edges, along with platinum and chrome, and the blade sounds like it's made of high quality steel, rather than tungsten steel.

 

[awa54]

An interesting flaw in the ad copy for these blades is the incorrect use of metalurgical terms; they claim to "alloy" platinum, chrome and tungsten in the blades, but if there was ever a stainless steel that intentionally included platinum in the alloy I have never seen the formula (and I have looked at the content of hundreds of cutlery alloys). So platinum would only ever be used as a coating, not as part of the actual blade stock. In light of this very loose usage of terms I am inclined to take the text on the back of the packaging with a grain of salt...

That doesn't mean I'm unwilling to believe that the SPC packaging may contain P74*s, just that I think the info on the package isn't useful in divining what lurks within.

 

[Maxime D.]

If Tungsten alone was the key for the ultimate blades, the Derby Extra would be FANTASTIC ! (Chromium-Ceramic Platinum Tungsten Polymer Coated Edge. It sound so ultimate, when you read it)

 

[mharris127]

If Tungsten alone was the key for the ultimate blades, the Derby Extra would be FANTASTIC ! (Chromium-Ceramic Platinum Tungsten Polymer Coated Edge. It sound so ultimate, when you read it)

Derbys are dull as a butter knife to me. I know YMMV but they are also not known as a great blade in general on the shaving forums. I guess adding Tungsten does not alone make a great blade. However the P74's (at least the official ones) are reputed to be excellent blades and if they weren't so expensive I would try one to see if it survives more than my usual two shaves. I would be impressed if one lasted me four shaves, some claim over 15 shaves to a P74 blade.

 

[haiti222]

The P74 stopped being promoted as such when Phillip Morris sold the company to the managers in a leveraged buyout with the participation of the State of Virginia. Bic had wanted to buy the plant, and they were doing contract work for Bic at the time. When the LBO was complete, Phillip Morris wanted their name off the packaging ASAP. There is good evidence that P74 blades (marked and unmarked) and P74 Black Plastic Injector Blade Containers were put into this new blister pack at the beginning. These blades would not have been accurately described by the packaging, as they did not have a platinum coating, but a titanium one. A long-time member was selling these transition packaging blades on ebay a year ago with a guarantee that they would say P74 on the blades when opened.

This is true with some, but not all of the blades packed in this blister pack packaging. He may have known what was in his batch of blades, but others are probably ones that fit the description on the blister pack. Over time, they dropped the titanium coating for platinum, but it is possible that you will get P74s if these blades were part of the early runs of this packaging. Tungsten remained in the blade for many years after the buyout.

The management had to stop advertising and also stop most R&D for several years after the LBO. Cost containment was important. All usable materials from the rich years were used up. However, I think it is safe to say that the Personna branded blades remained far above their store brand blades up until the early 90's. Even the next couple of generations of blister pack packaging produced excellent blades. By that time, Personna branded blades has spotty distribution, with Wal Mart becoming the major customer. I think the growth of Walmart and its policies of cost reduction led to the eventual cheapening of the US Personna in the mid to late 90's where it became much more like the store brand blades they made.

Here are some threads discussing the blades packaged right after the LBO:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-320583.html
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-130501.html
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-114821.html

 

[mharris127]

Haiti222, I wonder if that LBO was the beginning of the end for Personna (American Safety Razor) as it existed then. Now it is part of Schick -- another LBO from a few years ago. Personna is just another brand name now. Their blades have deteriorated in quality IMO since the Schick buyout -- I used to get two smooth shaves from a Personna red, now I get one rough one.

 

[haiti222]

The LBO was in 1978, I believe. Having used their store brands in the 80's, they were certainly not as smooth as Schick in injectors, and often drew some blood. The Double Edge store brand blades were just not that sharp. I bought some Personnas from the 80's and early 90's that seemed pretty good, but clearly they were not really spending on R & D or advertising, especially for Men's brands. In fact, I just looked at their 1996 annual report where they called their name brands "value brands" that were "essentially" equivalent to the competitors, but cheaper. Their advertising in 1996 totaled $700,000, about a 40% decrease from 1994. They had years with no advertising, and their spending fluctuated, partially to pay debt from various acquisitions. Also, much of the advertising money was spent on women's brands.

I think that Wal Mart's demands to roll back prices may have caused the Personna branded blades in the US to be similar to the store brand US blades, where even up to 3 or 4 years ago, some US stores were using the generally superior Israeli blades in their store brands.

Remember there were a lot of financial wheeling and dealing about 15 years ago that led the Israeli factory to become part of ASR.

 

[Mischka]

If they look like the ones in this photo, in which the cardboard blister packaging says "super platinum chrome", they're the real deal. Look closely at the blade cases. They are clearly printed with "Personna 74" in red ink.