Any racers here?

[bluefoxicy]

I'm going to get my hands on an MX-5 Miata when I have the money, for maybe $2000 (a mid-90s can drop to there, early 90s definitely). Maybe sink $3000 into it total by the end, but I'll start with a $50 strut tower brace, and ~$250 each front and back sway bars. That'll be my basic introduction into the world of Autocrossing.

Manual transmission, two seater with leather interior (I know, it's heavier than the cloth interior version), I'll upgrade the speakers (I know, even the default subs weigh about 5 pounds each; I'm not putting 70 pound speakers in) and the head unit to output about 250 watts, with 380 watt speakers. Drop a 2 pound 1F capacitor under the hood, across the battery, to handle the power drop from the bass.

I'll pop in a K&N air filter and give the engine some attention, make sure it's clean and proper by running a really light weight (not too light) oil in it for a couple hundred miles at high RPMs. Full synthetic.

And that'll be my race car. Mostly stock, I'll see what class that lands me in and upgrade within that class. I think Street Touring, so I can upgrade the exhaust system with a high-flow cat and maybe a less restrictive muffler, but I don't want to go with a loud *** glass pack.

Actually... yeah, the rules seem to say that puts me in Street Touring. Which is what I want: I want a car that's a fun little street car, that's been purpose-tuned for a race class. i.e. "Race Car." I don't want a butchered, gutted, drop-as-much-weight-as-I-can track workhorse. I want to be able to compete on a nice platform... a platform that's a nice daily. And in Street Touring class, I can do exactly that (Street Prepared class too, but prepping a car for Prepared is much more involved... it looks and handles more like a race car too, yet it's still street-ready).

Anyone else here race?

 

[ouch]

I believe the Miata was recently voted the all time best car

Spoiler

for girls.

 

[dmnall]

I believe the Miata was recently voted the all time best car

Spoiler

for girls.

That maybe true, but I think a Miata with a V8 *GM LSx and Tremec T56* would constitute it as a car for a Man.. Imagine that light of a car with 400+ HP would = FUN! Look into Stacy David's Gearz, he is building a Miata with a Ford V8 but it sounds like it will be a fun little car!

Cheers,

 

[Telecaster52]

I know a guy who turbo'ed his ~1991. never really looked at it much
woo-hoo... a really fast chick car...

 

[bluefoxicy]

That maybe true, but I think a Miata with a V8 *GM LSx and Tremec T56* would constitute it as a car for a Man.. Imagine that light of a car with 400+ HP would = FUN! Look into Stacy David's Gearz, he is building a Miata with a Ford V8 but it sounds like it will be a fun little car!

Cheers,

It would suck.

It would be too forward biased, and would oversteer in a difficult-to-recover way in curves. Handling would suffer greatly because of this, and so you would be slow except on very, very, painfully straight roads.

Ladies' class STS2 would then pass you with barely-modified, 130hp 1991 Miatas.

 

[Telecaster52]

IMO, an older VW GTI or Escort GT (same engine as the miata) can be had for a good bit less.

 

[82R100]

Well I think it's a great idea.

There's little out there as fun as a Miata (for those of us secure in our masculinity).

An Escort GT?

FWIW, I'll take my daughter's Protege (also with the Miata engine) any day over the Escort but neither will do what the Miata will.

 

[ouch]

The Miata was a great idea. It was a hoot to throw around. Nothing is more fun than a teeny car- Austin, MGB, Triumph, Fiat, Alpha, Lotus- those cars rocked. The closest I had in recent times was my Honda CRX. Discontinuing it was Honda's biggest blunder.

 

[Mysterion]

I also think it's a great idea; it's always more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. Back in the day, I saw more than one autocross dominated by a good driver in a Lotus Elan, while the Corvette guys just spun into the cones.

FWIW, I think your first mod should be rubber--you'll probably get the best return on investment/improvement in lap time. Next: I believe the stock wheels are pretty light, but a swap to lighter wheels would reduce unsprung weight, which will definitely benefit your times. A strut upgrade would probably be in order too, especially on an older vehicle.

Have fun, be careful, and be smooth. Drive with your fingertips.

 

[jadam318]

OP, no hate coming from here on your car choice. That sounds like a reasonably priced intro to what you want to do. Personally, I'd pick something rear wheel drive (I'm thinking late 80's BMW 3-series, which you can also find with a drop top), but that's just my preference. I can't stand the way front wheel drive cars handle. To each his own on that argument.

Whatever you do, post pics!!!! Without pics it didn't happen.

That maybe true, but I think a Miata with a V8 *GM LSx and Tremec T56* would constitute it as a car for a Man.. Imagine that light of a car with 400+ HP would = FUN! Look into Stacy David's Gearz, he is building a Miata with a Ford V8 but it sounds like it will be a fun little car!

Cheers,

Let's be honest, there ain't much Miata left of that car. I've seen articles on it......that's no Miata.

It would suck.

It would be too forward biased, and would oversteer in a difficult-to-recover way in curves. Handling would suffer greatly because of this, and so you would be slow except on very, very, painfully straight roads.

Ladies' class STS2 would then pass you with barely-modified, 130hp 1991 Miatas.

I respectfully disagree.

First of all, that LS motor is all aluminum and, therefore, quite light. Granted, it is still nearly twice as heavy as the Miata's little 4-banger, but that still lands it within a manageable weight given that GMPP custom built the suspension underneath it.

Second, the cab of a Miata is basically in the trunk. With the driver practically over the rear wheels, there is plenty of room to squeeze a V8 well behind the front wheels (which places it further back than the stock 4-banger, which is centered exactly over the front wheels).

As with any rear drive vehicle, it would still be front biased. And I agree that handling would be probably worse than a well tuned stocker, but that's just based on the addition of a couple of hundred pounds of motor.

Given equal drivers (similar capabilities), I'd put my money on that V8 creation any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

If nothing else you have to give them credit for keeping the age-old formula for sports cars alive: "Squeeze as much engine into as little car as possible."

 

[bluefoxicy]

FWIW, I think your first mod should be rubber--you'll probably get the best return on investment/improvement in lap time. Next: I believe the stock wheels are pretty light, but a swap to lighter wheels would reduce unsprung weight, which will definitely benefit your times. A strut upgrade would probably be in order too, especially on an older vehicle.

Tires would be Goodyear Assurance TripleTred, and the wheels would be possibly a bit larger... I dunno, within the STS2 class rules. Larger wheels only serve to stiffen the sidewalls and improve cornering performance that way; RFTs however are stiff, seeing as they're designed to still hold shape when FLAT, and will also satisfy that requirement. Mind you, tires themselves are quite heavy, so larger light-weight wheels versus stock-size with a fatter tire is an argument in itself....

Though if it's 14 inch wheels I'm definitely going to 15 inch. 15, I may stay stock; 15 inch tires are cheap and the tires I want won't come in 14 inch size.

Struts and shocks would be upgraded within the STS2 rules when the coil springs got replaced. I'd probably not lower the car, it's quite low as-is.

 

[bluefoxicy]

O Personally, I'd pick something rear wheel drive (I'm thinking late 80's BMW 3-series, which you can also find with a drop top), but that's just my preference. I can't stand the way front wheel drive cars handle.

That's because FWD handles like crap. It slips and torque steers and does all kinds of everything wrong, it pushes the load off the drive wheels and applies power to the steering wheels (meaning when the drive wheels slip, the wheels that haven't lost grip with the road are not useful for anything), and it causes all kinds of weirdness on low-traction surfaces and damaged road that sends your car wobbling in random directions.

The only thing good about FWD is recovering a RWD car is mainly about countersteering, adjusting throttle in an intelligent way, and braking appropriately; whereas a FWD car, you just point the wheels where you want to go, mash the throttle, and--if you're not a tad unlucky--the car will recover itself, or more likely go "mostly" in the direction you're pointing. At lower speeds with less throttle, trying not to spin your wheels and drive like an idiot, the car becomes far less predictable.

Luckily, the Miata is RWD.

 

[thebikingengineer]

I'd say you're looking at it the wrong way. Master the car in it's stock form before you go throwing money at it. The Miata does a very good job at being a well handling car right out of the box, you should be maxing out the car's capabilities before you start messing with it.

With that said, the tires you mentioned would be a poor choice for autocrossing. They've got way to much tread and will get destroyed in a few weekends without giving you good grip. If you want to be even a little serious about racing you'll want something like the Hoosier A6 and the Kumho Victoracer V700 shaved down and heat-cycled. Those are actual racing tires (which should be mounted on separate wheels as they're not suitable for higway use) and will lower your lap times by seconds once you know what you're doing.

 

[bigred90gt]

I've never driven a Miata, but from what I understand, they make great autocross cars. I'm 6'2" and close to 300lbs, so a Miata is a no-go for me.

As for tires, everyone I know who autocrosses runs low profile drag radials on their cars. They are incredibly sticky, being that they are deisgned for drag racing. If you get a low profile option, you wont have issues with side wall flex. Nitto and BFG make good drag radials.

 

[bluefoxicy]

I'd say you're looking at it the wrong way. Master the car in it's stock form before you go throwing money at it. The Miata does a very good job at being a well handling car right out of the box, you should be maxing out the car's capabilities before you start messing with it.

Not competitive in STS2 class, even in pure stock class people throw sway bars and strut braces and upgraded coil springs on their cars... and occasionally overbore the engine to the manufacturer's first specified diameter (i.e. rebuilt engine).

It is a great car in stock form. I'd rather push it a bit though; I drive by feel and reflex and I actually want something that has me clinging to my seat on my daily drive to work trying not to fall out, much less powering through the slaloms at much higher speeds (of 45mph...).

I mean it's obviously not going to be my one-and-only daily driver, but it's still a street car and it's going to see street time... besides, it'll burn less gas than anything normal with 5 seats and trunk space and 1000 more pounds of weight and an engine big enough to handle more passengers and cargo

Those are actual racing tires (which should be mounted on separate wheels as they're not suitable for higway use) and will lower your lap times by seconds once you know what you're doing.

Good idea, having a second set of wheels for racing is a good idea. STS2 is Street Touring, it's a street car suitable for the street. I picked the tires I'd want on the street in the corners when some idiot is cutting off the road coming the wrong way because he's too busy fiddling with something in the back seat to watch where he's going (or traveling down I-83 south into Baltimore... sheesh, that road is nuts).

Perhaps on the Fedex parking lot, something else would be in order. It's not exactly a race track but it's a different application.

 

[bluefoxicy]

I've never driven a Miata, but from what I understand, they make great autocross cars. I'm 6'2" and close to 300lbs, so a Miata is a no-go for me.

Porsche 914 is a mid-engine autocross monster you can probably get for a few thousand and use to blow through Stock class in your sleep. Can you fit in that?

Several hours a day on a stair master might improve your lap time I want to shed 10 pounds (I want to get rid of the fat layer and replace it with muscle, so I may gain 10 pounds... I don't care, I'll look sexy and feel good).

Heh... 2 hours a day at the gym would probably significantly improve my lap time anyway. If I get stronger (better abs...), I'll be able to keep my body more stable in the corners, allowing me to steer more precisely, corner more efficiently, and feel more feedback to know just how much I can push the car. Seriously, driving a car is an exhausting workout. I've never been so tired just sitting on my *** for five hours.

 

[jadam318]

That's because FWD handles like crap. It slips and torque steers and does all kinds of everything wrong, it pushes the load off the drive wheels and applies power to the steering wheels (meaning when the drive wheels slip, the wheels that haven't lost grip with the road are not useful for anything), and it causes all kinds of weirdness on low-traction surfaces and damaged road that sends your car wobbling in random directions.

The only thing good about FWD is recovering a RWD car is mainly about countersteering, adjusting throttle in an intelligent way, and braking appropriately; whereas a FWD car, you just point the wheels where you want to go, mash the throttle, and--if you're not a tad unlucky--the car will recover itself, or more likely go "mostly" in the direction you're pointing. At lower speeds with less throttle, trying not to spin your wheels and drive like an idiot, the car becomes far less predictable.

Luckily, the Miata is RWD.

Hey, whadda know. Those little things are RWD! I checked up on you because I would have sworn Miatas were FWD. Since I'm wrong, great choice, man! That makes me want to take one of those little things out for a spin.

Do you have your eye on one yet?

Also, since we're on the subject, how do you get into this kind of racing? I assume you're going through a local SCCA branch or something similar?

 

[bluefoxicy]

Also, since we're on the subject, how do you get into this kind of racing? I assume you're going through a local SCCA branch or something similar?

Yeah, I'm going through WDCR SCCA. Go looking, you'll probably find autocrossing near you; I have to go as far as DC but whatever. You need a $60/year membership, $25 for a race day, and 8 hours of time since you work half the day and race half the day.

There's four types of racing I want to do:

• Autocrossing
• Track rally (NASCAR)
• Road rally
• Karting

All of these can be done with a Spec Miata class car, a limited modification street-legal two-seat rear wheel drive vehicle. It's good on gas, it's not slow, it corners like hell on wheels, handles better than your first girlfriend, and more importantly -- it's barely any better or worse than anyone else's. This means that, unlike idiot street racer teenagers getting themselves killed on the back roads, you're not blasting the Mustangs with your 800hp turbocharged V12 upgrade; your car's as good as his car, and winning a race relies entirely on being a better driver, not a rich mechanic.

I'm researching into how to overlap Autocross, Street, and Spec Miata racing in one Miata. I know some folks have their Spec Miatas street legal, and that you can present Spec Miata compliance papers to get into Street Prepared (SPS2?) class; I want to stay down in STS2 class for now though, unless SCCA starts running Autocross heats in SM class.

As for races...

Autocrossing as you know is an SCCA thing, you ride around a parking lot going through road cone marked slaloms. Here's the rules:

http://www.scca.com/documents/Solo Rules/2008_Solo_Rules_2.pdf

A Track rally race is like NASCAR. In traffic. I haven't been able to find any of these. Ask around on specmiata.com for help. These are, of course, NASCAR-style rally races, in traffic, where you can smash other drivers up if you're not careful. Be aware of the risk to your investment and your life.

A Road Rally is fun. It's a race... on the road. On open, live roads, with traffic, and speed limits, and street signs, and other cars, and pedestrians. There are time restrictions-- in both directions. If you go too fast, you're speeding, likely to get arrested, and disqualified for reaching the finish line before legally possible (or passing an official observer too soon).

Basically, in a road rally, you get a route. You get to study that route. You have to take that route to get from point A to point B, as fast as you can. Perfect corners, perfect reaction to road hazards, keep your openings so you can go around idiot drivers and pedestrians rather than panic stopping, keep your car set AT the speed limit (not over, and not driving too slow). You need full awareness of the road and full preparedness for unpredictable situations you typically encounter on the street on your daily drive.

I believe it's staggered-start, meaning each competitor leaves a minute or so after the last. This gives you distance between each car, so you're not directly competing i.e. trying to pass each other and driving aggressively. (Yeah, a track rally is an exercise in aggressive driving-- which is fun, but dangerous and properly illegal).

Here's the WDCR rules for that...

http://www.wdcr-scca.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=2xFh+2zZlKY=&tabid=104&mid=2872

Karting is simple. 30-80mph in a Go Kart through hell. Here's a 1/5 mile track:

http://www.midatlanticgrandprix.com/site/default.asp?contentID=548

Shifter karts can top speed anywhere from 45mph to over 100mph. They weigh 100 pounds, they might have a 10hp engine on them and an autoshifter or a stick shift with 6 FORWARD gears. Solid axle rear wheel drive, no suspension; you're an inch from the ground and the frame is designed to flex and lift the inner wheel cornering to act as a simulated differential. No, I'm not making this s### up.

The mid-atlantic grand prix tracks run under 22 seconds for a 1/5 mile lap (32mph average). You can push 20 in some cases. There are straighter tracks like triovals where you may get a kart going 88mph. In the best case, you may wind up in the Formula 1 Grand Prix running... really f#@^ing fast in a go-kart and I hope you learned to shift without using the clutch.

You won't die on the Autocross.

 

[jadam318]

That all sounds pretty sweet, man! One question, though: how can you race shifter carts in a Miata? (Kidding. I know what you meant.)

I'm moving to South Carolina in a couple of weeks, and I'm sure there is some SCCA activity in Charleston (which is only about an hour or so from where I'll be living). I'll probably look into this once I get this move out of the way. I've been wanting to get a little gas saver to commute in anyway. It would be fantastic if I could find something I could also take to a track day now and then. I'm going to have to do some research on this......

Here's a real question for you, though. Why did you pick the Miata over a 3 series BMW, Porsche 944, 924, etc., Toyota MR2, or anything else?

 

[bluefoxicy]

That all sounds pretty sweet, man! One question, though: how can you race shifter carts in a Miata?

Are you kidding? They're basically the same thing!

Here's a real question for you, though. Why did you pick the Miata over a 3 series BMW, Porsche 944, 924, etc., Toyota MR2, or anything else?

Because the Miata is a known preferred, fantastic racer. A Porsche 914 would be an EXCELLENT autocrosser, for example; as would an MR2 (Mid-Rear layout, mid engine and rear wheel drive; the engine is not "in the rear"). But the Miata is an easy car to work with, it handles fantastic, it has its own class, it's recognized, and it's really just all around good for this application.

And in the end? I have a little racer, good on gas, fun to drive slow, fun in the back roads, and great as a little gas saver daily. Oh, and able to compete (as in, not come in last every single time) on the track.

By the way, they're cheap. Prod around for an old 1991-ish one, or a second gen platform in 1996+ range. You can get an NA platform one from 1991-1993 for $1500-$3000. Biggest problem of course being the engine is old and you probably want to rip it out and rebuild it... which I want to do.