A Tale of Two Finests - It was the best of brushes, it was the worst of brushes.

[vocalistbob]

Brush #1.

When Classic Shaving offered up some NOS M & F brushes made with genuine Rooney Finest hair available, I grabbed a giant 33mm brush which I called the 4XL (not sure if M & F had a model name for it). When it arrived, I was totally seduced by the enormous, dense and ultra soft knot, but little did I know what was lurking inside that knot. When dry, it was incredibly soft, but once I put the brush to work, its evil twin appeared. The softness was gone - replaced by what Rudy Vey (and others) described as a sensation of wires embedded in the knot. I found it to be very unpleasant and irritating. I kept the brush for a while, used it a number of times (despite the irritation) and did a lot of palm-lathering to try to soften up that knot, but it didn't change. Ultimately, i decided it just wasn't a good brush for my somewhat sensitive skin and I sold it.

Brush #2.

A friend of mine had bought two of these brushes and decided to sell the larger one, which was an exact twin to the one I had. I decided that I had to find out if my (wiry) brush was a fluke or whether all of the Finests were similarly irritating, so I bought it. It had been used only 2 - 3 times and initially, it also felt stiff and irritating, but not exactly in the same way - I didn't get that "embedded wire" sensation. I did a lot of palm-lathering with this brush as well, but this one responded differently; it softened up bit-by-bit with each use. When I used it yesterday morning, it felt very much like a slightly stiffer version of my Manchurian Chubby 3 - which is exactly what I hoped it would be from the beginning. With the first brush, I didn't dare scrub very hard at all. Yesterday I did 3.5 passes and felt free to scrub as hard as I wanted to - all I felt was a slight tingling which was not unpleasant.

So I am curious why there was such a big difference between the two brushes. Were the Finests just highly inconsistent? Was it the extra palm-lathering that made the difference? Did I give up too soon on the first one? I know that other Finest owners have experienced that "embedded wire" feeling, but I'd also like to know if their brushes softened up for them over time or whether they just stayed wiry and irritating. Are there guys out there who actually like that wiry sensation?

 

[celestino]

Wow, Bob, that is the first i have heard of this! i hope you enjoy the one you kept.

 

[lt114]

I wonder if both of these brushes are from the old batch of Rooney Finest hair. They are supposed to be Rooney Finest hair, but I don't know if it's possible to know for certain. If one of them wasn't, that would explain the difference in the hair.

 

[vocalistbob]

Yes, they are both from the old batch of Rooney hair. They were bought from the same source within days of each other. In theory, they should be identical.

 

[mblakele]

There is some history of folks with sensitive skin disliking the Rooney finest hair, but in this case I think we are talking about brush to brush variation. Maybe Rudy had the bad luck to also try especially scratchy examples. I have used two Rooney finest brushes, styles 3/1 and 1/1. They had similar levels of scritch, and felt softer dry than wet. The "embedded wire" description sounds extreme to me, but brushes seem to vary about as much as people do.

 

[Amzimbo]

May I ask, and I'm being sincere, not snide, why you want to scrub with your shaving brush? Does exfoliation as part of lathering help with the shave? I prefer to scrub as part of my pre-shave routine (with MR GLO or an equivalent), and then lay down a good lather with my brush. I never thought there was a reason to try to use the brush to exfoliate, but would like to hear the reason. Thanks.

 

[vocalistbob]

For me, it's not about exfoliating per se; I just find a nice, gentle stinging sensation to be stimulating.

 

[Amzimbo]

For me, it's not about exfoliating per se; I just like find a nice, gentle stinging sensation to be stimulating.

Thanks for replying.

 

[ChiefBroom]

Both bushes were labeled "Blonde Badger" and originally purchased from Classic Shaving's offering of NOS M&F's back in August (see this thread), right?

Glad you're liking the second one.

 

[maxman]

I have a Rooney Finest (a Rooney one) and I find the hair to not be as soft as say a Kent.
But the flow through of the hair is amazing.
It's the type of brush where you can only use the tips. If you are a scrubby type of guy, this hair isn't what you want.
I've been pricked a bit by my brush (but not in a bad way)

Rooney hair has a reputation of being hard to break in. I remember my Rooney 3/2 took a bit more than a good month to really break in.

 

[vocalistbob]

Chief - right!

Marc: I could get by with the first brush by using only the tips, but where's the fun in that? I enjoy the pressure and scrub aspect of applying lather and don't want to have to think about how hard I am pressing the brush against my skin. When I apply my alum block after a shave, I don't mind a bit of stinging, but with that brush, it felt like my face was on fire!

 

[SliceOfLife]

My first finest was a size 1. It was short lofted for size 1's (I wanna say 3-5mm under the spec loft). And I sold it for being too aggressive after only a use or two. My second was a size 2. I picked that one by weight (heaviest brush with it's knot dimensions by many grams... hence densest by my logic). It is the best brush I own and I knew it was a keeper after my first use.

 

[mblakele]

Ian, I think that 1/1 went to me? I did not find it overly aggressive, but I gave it a longer trial. After a while I decided that I preferred my 3/1, mostly due to the taller handle.

 

[alex2363]

Great thread here............

 

[ChiefBroom]

My first finest was a size 1. It was short lofted for size 1's (I wanna say 3-5mm under the spec loft). And I sold it for being too aggressive after only a use or two. My second was a size 2. I picked that one by weight (heaviest brush with it's knot dimensions by many grams... hence densest by my logic). It is the best brush I own and I knew it was a keeper after my first use.

Do you remember what its loft was?

 

[SliceOfLife]

Very possible. It's been so long I only remember why I sold it and that very shortly after I gave the Finests a second and final chance and was glad I did. The rest of the details are pretty hazy. It's also quite possible that it splayed a bit after a few more uses. I don't think my first couple uses gave it much of a bloom, and if it did wind up blooming a bit, that would have been a welcome improvement in my eyes.

Sorry chief, I wanna say around 40 or 41mm? But that's really just a guess. If mblakele is correct, then perhaps he can say for sure.

Ian, I think that 1/1 went to me? I did not find it overly aggressive, but I gave it a longer trial. After a while I decided that I preferred my 3/1, mostly due to the taller handle.

 

[GreekGuy]

I realize some will disagree with me, but if you are looking for softness, then you shouldn't be buying a Rooney Finest. I can think of tons of great soft brushes. The Rooney Finest is not one of them, and that is why many love it.

 

[Deleted member 48987]

I realize some will disagree with me, but if you are looking for softness, then you shouldn't be buying a Rooney Finest. I can think of tons of great soft brushes. The Rooney Finest is not one of them, and that is why many love it.

+1 I completely agree.

 

[ChiefBroom]

Very possible. It's been so long I only remember why I sold it and that very shortly after I gave the Finests a second and final chance and was glad I did. The rest of the details are pretty hazy. It's also quite possible that it splayed a bit after a few more uses. I don't think my first couple uses gave it much of a bloom, and if it did wind up blooming a bit, that would have been a welcome improvement in my eyes.

Sorry chief, I wanna say around 40 or 41mm? But that's really just a guess. If mblakele is correct, then perhaps he can say for sure.

Thanks. I think I found the listing, but no knot dimensions. (Is this the brush?). I have a Rooney Finest that looks like a 1/1 but has a Stubby label. At 22mm x 47mm+ it's plenty scrubby. I've learned to use it a little differently.

I agree with GreekGuy, who has beau-coup experience with Finest brushes, and Amir.

I suspect Bob may have incompatible objectives. When we experience a stinging sensation, it's usually as a result of the nerves in our skin trying to give us useful information. I also like that kind of stimulation, but found that for me it can turn out to be costly in terms of shave quality. I still enjoy scrubby 2-bands; however, I've adapted how I use them.

 

[mblakele]

Those are the right links for my 1/1 finest: I purchased it 2010-10-07 and sold it on 2011-12-06. So I gave it over a year to break in. I measured the knot at 21-mm and the loft at 44-mm. The wiki page http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Rooney_Style_1_Shaving_Brush specifies 22x42, which is pretty close.

But Ian says he went through two rounds of Rooney Finest SBAD, so he may have a different brush in mind. Or we might have different ways of measuring loft: I find them tricky to measure. Usually I caliper the entire brush, then the handle, and A - B is the loft. But 3-4 mm is not much of a difference.