2 Band Vs 3 Band...Again

[Phog Allen]

Alright lads, I am still not 100% sure I get what the difference is between the two. Oh I get the physical/visual difference. It is plain to see. I am simply not sure of what it means in lathering use.

I ask because I am getting ready to buy a new brush and have a few things in mind that may tilt it one way or another. Currently use B&B limited 2006 EJ & 2009 Kent. First is luxurious but just a bit moppish on hard soaps. Latter is a bit smaller but denser and nice soft tips. Love it. DaVinci 293. DENSE knot. Prickly when dry, no scritch wet. Great lather machine. To me these bristles have backbone. Savile Row 3824 bulb. Very soft tips, decently dense but not heavy in backbone. A superb brush and I have used itmfor years.

Ok to it. Typical knot descriptions tend to focus these main factors; Density, backbone, tip feel(scritch vs gel like), and scrubbiness. When it comes to 2 vs 3 band, are some of these charactetistics always associated with one or the other?

Likes/wants; Tips soft like the Savile Row/2009 Kent/2006 EJ. Density similar to DV 293. Backbone? Don't know really. Density can really affect perceived backbone. As long as the knot doesn't splay flat completely whilst lathering I am pretty good. The Da Vinci to me has the most backbone of the brushes I own if that helps. The DaVinci is also easily the most scrubby of the bunch. Agian though, its tips are very friendly when lathered but not uber soft like the others. So latley I have been looking at Thater 2 band fans and Semogue 2 band SOC.

 

[Hoka Hey]

Regular 2 band is typically thicker and stiffer individual hairs, which gives a little more natural backbone/stiffness. Tips on the 2bands I’ve used are plenty soft, no scritch. That’s limited to a couple Shavemac’s and a Paladin.

Regular 3 band hair is thinner, more flexible than 2band, and that flexibility makes them feel somewhat softer than 2band.

Then there’s the outliers, like the Shavemac do-1 3 and 2bands. They are a different kettle of fish.

How tight the knot is packed, how much loft above the handle also impact the feel.

I’ve been very impressed with the Paladin 2band knot. Very well balanced. Stiff enough, very soft tips, great flow through (gives up lather easily), not a lather hog. Very economical with soap, loads quickly. About the only thing it won’t do is splay much.

Regular Shavemac 2bands are very nice also. Not as stiff, will splay a bit. Good flow through. This knot would please most folks. Very easy to use.

Regular Shavemac Silvertip (3 band) super soft, great splay, great flow through. Think makeup brush soft.

Shavemac do-1 3 band was scratchy at first, but softened up nicely after a month or so. Mine is a lather hog. Takes about twice as much soap to load it well as other brushes. This one is a fan, and splay is good for such a dense knot.

Shavemac do-1 2 band is a scritch monster, though it has lessened with a months break in. Still has some scritch to it. Very dense, very little splay. Surprisingly not as much of a soap hog as the 3band do-1.

I’ve come to appreciate all of them for there unique characteristics.

 

[BigJ]

One other factor to consider is the shape of the knot: fan, bulb or combination. This also affects the perceived backbone and how the brush performs. (Sorry, but this is a bit complicated!)

Here is another option for you to consider: you could contact Rudy Vey. I have really been enjoying the 2-band Shavemac (fan shaped) brush that he made for me! I would heartily recommend one!

 

[Phog Allen]

Thanks guys. So typically, if we can say such things, 2 bands will tend toward thicker bristles with more natrual backbone. Sound right? Tip scritch or gel just depends upon hair batch or manufacturer tendencies?

And yes, I would agree that knot shape plats a role too. I was looking at Brad Sears mocels and they have some hybrids that look great. Been thinking fan since my brushes are all bulb or close to it. As it sits the Thater 2 band fans are looking good with the beehive. Then again that Semogue 2 band SOC with the whir Taj handle is really appealing.

I will say this. I am not really virulent with the SBAD. I have always been pretty level headed with that. If you look at my brushes the DaVinci is the newest and is at least six or seven years old. I buy when I really feel like I sort of need/want a new experience. This is a sort of retirement gift from me to me.

 

[bakerbarber]

Get a Shavemac D01 Silvertip.

 

[Brutus]

So typically, if we can say such things, 2 bands will tend toward thicker bristles with more natrual backbone. Sound right?

Yes, it does.

Shavemac gives a nice explanation in this link, but keep in mind that “D01” applies to their brushes only and that a few manufacturers use different terms for their hair qualities: Badger Qualities


Hope this helps.


B.

 

[Big Jim]

You really need one of each. A two band finest and a 3 band silvertip. You will find them both very enjoyable but for different reasons.

 

[ackvil]

Regular 2 band is typically thicker and stiffer individual hairs, which gives a little more natural backbone/stiffness. Tips on the 2bands I’ve used are plenty soft, no scritch. That’s limited to a couple Shavemac’s and a Paladin.

Regular 3 band hair is thinner, more flexible than 2band, and that flexibility makes them feel somewhat softer than 2band.

Then there’s the outliers, like the Shavemac do-1 3 and 2bands. They are a different kettle of fish.

How tight the knot is packed, how much loft above the handle also impact the feel.

I’ve been very impressed with the Paladin 2band knot. Very well balanced. Stiff enough, very soft tips, great flow through (gives up lather easily), not a lather hog. Very economical with soap, loads quickly. About the only thing it won’t do is splay much.

Regular Shavemac 2bands are very nice also. Not as stiff, will splay a bit. Good flow through. This knot would please most folks. Very easy to use.

Regular Shavemac Silvertip (3 band) super soft, great splay, great flow through. Think makeup brush soft.

Shavemac do-1 3 band was scratchy at first, but softened up nicely after a month or so. Mine is a lather hog. Takes about twice as much soap to load it well as other brushes. This one is a fan, and splay is good for such a dense knot.

Shavemac do-1 2 band is a scritch monster, though it has lessened with a months break in. Still has some scritch to it. Very dense, very little splay. Surprisingly not as much of a soap hog as the 3band do-1.

I’ve come to appreciate all of them for there unique characteristics.

Good description. Unfortunately, there are no standards and standardized descriptions on badger knots. Each maker seems to set their own standard or description without any standardization. The Wiki shows the variance by brand.

 

[Phog Allen]

Jim P, missed that one while looking at the wiki.. Thanks.

 

[Phog Allen]

Yes, it does.

Shavemac gives a nice explanation in this link, but keep in mind that “D01” applies to their brushes only and that a few manufacturers use different terms for their hair qualities: Badger Qualities


Hope this helps.


B.

Thanks Brutus. It has been a long time since I looked at thenShavemac web site.

 

[BigJ]

This is a sort of retirement gift from me to me.

CONGRATULATIONS! You deserve a new brush (or two)!!

 

[paintflinger]

So latley I have been looking at Thater 2 band fans and Semogue 2 band SOC.

Todd, neither of those have particularly soft tips in my experience. I could send you my Thater 2 band, if you'd like to try it?

 

[IMightBeWrong]

Going into gross generalizations, I like 2 band hair when I really want to massage lather into my face and 3 band silvertip when I want to feel cloud-like, luxurious lather building.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Going into gross generalizations, I like 2 band hair when I really want to massage lather into my face and 3 band silvertip when I want to feel cloud-like, luxurious lather building.

That's kinda how I see it, too.

Still, I have two-band brushes which are very soft, and three-band brushes which are quite scrubby. Many factors go into it, not just the hair.

Probably my current favorite brush is this Zenith Manchurian. I suppose it's a two-band, and it's incredibly scrubby with a backbone like nothing else, but the tips just keep getting softer. It has a little bit of scritch, but so little I actually like the scritch (and I don't like scritch).

Anyway, as the man said, it's complicated.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Phog Allen]

Yeah, that's why I asked about this. Complicated to figure out. So I will list my top two likes and wants first and then figure it out from there. And before we do, one last question about 'gel' like tips. I see this term used from time to time to describe tip feel on some two bands. Am I misreading things? So far here it sems as if most think two bands will have tips that lean to more scritch because of the thicker strands. Yes/no?

Okay, here we go. While I certainly love soft tips and it is critical, lets start with density. A dense knot is a good place to start. Soft tips next. Scrubby next. I don't mind the masaging effect. This is one of the nicer things about the 293. I was afraid the 'dry scritch' was going to translate into lathering feel but it did not. Sorry lads, not trying to analyse this to death. I simply want to make a good selection.

 

[Phog Allen]

Todd, neither of those have particularly soft tips in my experience. I could send you my Thater 2 band, if you'd like to try it?

Derek, thank you for the nice gesture. I will keep it in mind if I cannot make up my mind fairly soon.

 

[paintflinger]

Yeah, that's why I asked about this. Complicated to figure out. So I will list my top two likes and wants first and then figure it out from there. And before we do, one last question about 'gel' like tips. I see this term used from time to time to describe tip feel on some two bands. Am I misreading things? So far here it sems as if most think two bands will have tips that lean to more scritch because of the thicker strands. Yes/no?

Okay, here we go. While I certainly love soft tips and it is critical, lets start with density. A dense knot is a good place to start. Soft tips next. Scrubby next. I don't mind the masaging effect. This is one of the nicer things about the 293. I was afraid the 'dry scritch' was going to translate into lathering feel but it did not. Sorry lads, not trying to analyse this to death. I simply want to make a good selection.

I find most 2 bands have treated tips, so the majority are as soft as a lot of the silvertip I've tried. You can get gel tips on any brush really, its just a lot easier on the 2 band or silvertip. For example, my whipped dog silvertip had gel tips. Gel tips feel almost slimey on the face, hence the gel tips moniker.

Shavemac 2 band silvertip would fit your criteria nicely.

Also, I can amend my previous offer and send you any brush you'd really like to try; out of shavemac 2 band silvertip, romera Manchurian, elite razor Manchurian, paladin, thater, maseto, or Saponificio varesino.

 

[StillShaving]

It is my belief that the tips get softer over time. But maybe that is a false mind game so I will not put it forth as fact.

One example that I am heavily relying on for that comment is that I bought a very cheap black badger brush off eBay via China (sub $10) a few years ago. I was hoping that this hair quality and low price point would guarantee getting a very scritchy brush which was what I desired. It did appear to have clipped hairs to shape the bulb and did feel scratchy in the beginning but after some number of shaves (20?) and some time (1 year?) it felt quite soft. The softness and floppiness meant the brush was no longer appealing to use. It felt like a different brush.