Extremely Hard Water

[Macfrommichigan]

I purchased some citric acid at a bulk food store. Filled a large salt shaker with it. I put some tap water in a big mug, shake some CA in, swirl a brush in the mug, and lather away.

(I keep the labeled salt shaker in the cabinet under the sink.)

 

[Cal]

There is a nice thread here somewhere about hard water and citric acid etc.. do you not search it I don't know if it's @Cal who started the thread I could be wrong sorry if I'm wrong Cal.

Yep. That's the one @naughtilus linked in post #2.

Citric Acid for Hard Water Suffering Brits

 

[dash]

I just checked the Walmart website. I thought they would stock food-grade citric acid. Nope. But they do have a product called LemiShine Dish Detergent Booster. This is citric acid with fragrance added. Its entire purpose is to combat hard water ... in dishwashers. Looks perfect for dealing with hard-water shaving.

 

[Keto]

I just checked the Walmart website. I thought they would stock food-grade citric acid. Nope. But they do have a product called LemiShine Dish Detergent Booster. This is citric acid with fragrance added. Its entire purpose is to combat hard water ... in dishwashers. Looks perfect for dealing with hard-water shaving.

Each Wal Mart must have different stock. Because I got some from wal Mart, canning section, I think

 

[dash]

I thought it would be in canning or somewhere in regular groceries. I just checked in-stock stuff again and it lists the dishwasher booster first with no in-store food-use items at all.

P.S. According to their website, my Target store has it.

 

[Norman Gunston]

Hi Gents.
I've just arrived at the hard water Camp, so I'll be trialing citric acid over the next few days.

 

[Elvis Outlander]

I am very optimistic the citric acid will help a lot. Sodium citrate should work better if it is more available--there is no acid equivalent to neutralize or interfere with the alkali components of the soap. The portion of each that serves as the chelating agent is identical.

I have the following views on the Chemistry--keep in mind I am not a Chemist. . . .only a lowly Chemical Engineer. . . .and not a good one at that:

1. Anything that has a chelating agent in it should help with hard water.

2. Citric Acid and tetrasodium EDTA are common chelating agents. Barrister and Mann uses another chelating agent, Trisodium Ethylenediamine Disuccinate, in their Reserve formula. They have Sodium Citrate in the Glissant base, and they have EDTA in their Excelsior base. I find that all of their stuff works well in my hard water. Wholly Kaw also works well for me. . . . with no chemical chelating agent.

3. I don't think that a chelating agent in a Milk-based soap will do much good. I would guess there is a lot more calcium in the milk than there is EDTA to chelate it. I saw that Declaration Grooming did this with their Icarus soap.

4. One can find disodium EDTA readily to use in place of sodium citrate, but I doubt it will do any good. It is a shortened name for calcium disodium EDTA. You are adding one unit of calcium for every unit of EDTA. The net result will be no softening.

5. Adding a little distilled water to a basin of hard tap water (as noted earlier in the thread) should have essentially no effect.

My experience to date: I have very good luck with Arko, Tabac, Barrister and Mann (all of them), and Wholly Kaw in my hard water. Where B&M and WK work, I don't need to do a lot more searching. . . .even though I do throw in other samples on Maggard Razor orders to get free shipping.


INTRIGUING FROM OP: La Toja stick, LEA stick and Speick stick all have EDTA in them. Knowing that it failed pokes some holes in what I have above--again, I am not a chemist. Maybe they just didn't have enough?? This would indicate seeing EDTA in the ingredient list may not be enough.

MOST INTRIGUING FROM OP (and from my experience): Wholly Kaw kind of worked in hard water--even better than some containing EDTA. It is milk-based. I have often wondered if milk has something it that keeps calcium in solution. . . . and while doing prevents it reacting negatively with the soap. It would make sense that this would be the case in terms of nutrition. It also makes sense that if a soap containing significant amounts of milk works in soft water, it should also work in hard water. My hunch is that the calcium in the milk will be more significant than the amount of calcium in the hard water.

For me when picking samples to test, I look for highly-rated soaps that have a chelating agent in the ingredient list <OR> I look for soaps that contain significant quantities of Milk. I wish Maggard Razors sold samples of Lisa's so I could round out an order with one of her soaps. To use up other soaps that I had purchased before paying attention, I add sodium citrate to the basin.

 

[Norman Gunston]

Greetings, Gents.

Here is my shave of the day post - favourable results with the citric acid trial.
Coincidentally, I noticed that the DR Harris shampoo bar that I used whilst showering lathered very well in the untreated camp water - I checked the ingredients, and no EDTA or softener listed. The shampoo bar is coconut oil based.

Donga Shave at Camp in Great Sandy Desert

Prep: Valobra Glycerlanolina soap, Alt Innsbruck Emulsion
Brush: Savile Row 3824 Silvertip Badger
Soap: Wholly Kaw Kind of Oud
Razor: Merkur Futur (2)
Blade: Polsilver Super Iridium (1)
Post: Alt Innsbruck Emulsion
Scent: DR Harris Arlington

Back at the camp with the unholiest hard water. Trialled addition of Citric acid as a softening agent to lather water.
It made a tangible improvement to the lather - still not up to normal standards, but acceptable.

The improved lather allowed me to go for a third ATG pass, whereas I normally cut my losses and stick with two passes at this location.
Ended up with a very nice BBS shave. I could also tell that the lather and subsequent shave was improved by the skin sensation when I applied the Alt Innsbruck Emulsion post-shave.
It is normally a bit of damage control, but on this occasion, it was simply a delightful bracing finale.