My new "Gillette NEW Short Comb" arrived. Yay!

[Esox]

I have NEW LC's, Pre and Post Techs, Super Speeds (40's and early Flares), and ball-end Old Types as well as a Fatip
Grande and Merkur 34G and 23C and even an ASD2. And have previously owned and sold a Muhle R89 and a Pre-War Canadian Fat Handle Tech. So at least some representations of rigid vs non-rigid types. I shave WTG,XTG, and ATG. These razors do shave differently (I like the Olds and NEWs), that's certain for me. But I have never experienced this flex and chatter that is spoken of. Like...never. Just sayin'. It seems weird to me, because one would think that the blade would be held against the top cap during the shaving stroke and couldn't possibly flick back and forth when it's gliding over softened whiskers and a surface lubricated by lather. I'm going to have to do a test of this and really compare two of my razors, like a post war Tech vs pre war or something else from the stable. Any suggestions from the razors I've mentioned?

Take a paper clip or something similar and carefully apply downward pressure on the blade edge towards the comb or safety bar. You'll quickly find the rigid designs.

If you have coarse and/or dense whiskers, rigidity does matter. If you dont have particularly dense or coarse whiskers, it may not matter for you. If not, consider yourself lucky lol.

I couldnt get a BBS finish over my trouble areas with my NEW LC and any blade I tried, but the SC wipes them right off with virtually any blade, Derby Extra included.

My post war Tech will get me to the same place, with 5-6 passes instead of 2-3 with the SC.

 

[rabidus]

But I have never experienced this flex and chatter that is spoken of. Like...never. Just sayin'.

Not everyone's beard is coarse enough for it to matter!

All razors have a level of rigidity and is enough for many people.

I can shave most of my beard just fine with all the razors you mentioned, but I need the most rigid razor for my more coarse areas.

 

[rudyt]

I have never experienced this flex and chatter that is spoken of. Like...never. Just sayin'. It seems weird to me, because one would think that the blade would be held against the top cap during the shaving stroke and couldn't possibly flick back and forth when it's gliding over softened whiskers and a surface lubricated by lather.

Contrary to some very convinced people around here, I agree with you completely. I have a Wardonia that has no bottom blade support to speak of (see below).

It shaves great, and I detect no blade flexing and snapping back. I'm a steep angle shaver, so most of the force on the blade is upwards against the top cap.

 

[rudyt]

Take a paper clip or something similar and carefully apply downward pressure on the blade edge towards the comb or safety bar. You'll quickly find the rigid designs.

Dude, that test does not mimic regular shaving. When I shave, the force is up towards the top cap, not downward towards the comb.

Usev that paperclip to push on the bottom is the blade against the cap. All razors are pretty rigid that way.

You just like the SC more because of the overall geometry, not solely because I'd the rigidity.

 

[Esox]

Dude, that test does not mimic regular shaving. When I shave, the force is up towards the top cap, not downward towards the comb.

Usev that paperclip to push on the bottom is the blade against the cap. Ask razors are pretty rigid that way.

Its not meant to mimic shaving. Its meant to highlight a rigid design from a less rigid design.

 

[Esox]

You just like the SC more because of the overall geometry, not solely because I'd the rigidity.

I disagree.

I really liked my NEW LC. It gave me a really nice smooth and close shave over all areas except, the trouble spots on either side of my adams apple. I buffed, buffed again and then buffed some more and it still wouldnt BBS those areas. A Brit Rocket, with a Derby Extra in it with 4 shaves, wiped that stubble right off. Thats before, rabidus sent me my NEW SC.

The SC is like the Rocket with gap. Even more effective and just as rigid.

 

[TobyC]

I have NEW LC's, Pre and Post Techs, Super Speeds (40's and early Flares), and ball-end Old Types as well as a Fatip
Grande and Merkur 34G and 23C and even an ASD2. And have previously owned and sold a Muhle R89 and a Pre-War Canadian Fat Handle Tech. So at least some representations of rigid vs non-rigid types. I shave WTG,XTG, and ATG. These razors do shave differently (I like the Olds and NEWs), that's certain for me. But I have never experienced this flex and chatter that is spoken of. Like...never. Just sayin'. It seems weird to me, because one would think that the blade would be held against the top cap during the shaving stroke and couldn't possibly flick back and forth when it's gliding over softened whiskers and a surface lubricated by lather. I'm going to have to do a test of this and really compare two of my razors, like a post war Tech vs pre war or something else from the stable. Any suggestions from the razors I've mentioned?

I use a shallow shaving angle which I believe eliminates much of the problem, maybe you do too. The pre and post-war Techs, and the short and long comb News, would be great for comparing them. Unfortunately I only have a LC New, and a pre-war Tech, so I can't compare them.

 

[TobyC]

Dude, that test does not mimic regular shaving. When I shave, the force is up towards the top cap, not downward towards the comb.

Usev that paperclip to push on the bottom is the blade against the cap. All razors are pretty rigid that way.

You just like the SC more because of the overall geometry, not solely because I'd the rigidity.

+1

 

[TobyC]

Its not meant to mimic shaving. Its meant to highlight a rigid design from a less rigid design.

View attachment 816490

At what point during your shave does the blade push down away from the cap?

 

[Esox]

At what point during your shave does the blade push down away from the cap?


View attachment 816532

I dont believe I ever said it did? Push up against the blade edge and measure the amount of flex. Certainly it will be less than applying downward pressure, razor depending, but it will still be there on a less rigid design.

Use rudyt's Wardonia and your OLD type as examples, and let me know which is more rigid.

 

[rudyt]

I dont believe I ever said it did? Push up against the blade edge and measure the amount of flex. Certainly it will be less than applying downward pressure, razor depending, but it will still be there on a less rigid design.

Use rudyt's Wardonia and your OLD type as examples, and let me know which is more rigid.

Downward rigidity is an irrelevant metric if the force on the blade is only upwards. Upwards rigidity is a lot more meaningful.

 

[Esox]

Its not meant to mimic shaving. Its meant to highlight a rigid design from a less rigid design.

At which point in those two sentences did I relate that simple test to any type of shaving exercise? lol

 

[rabidus]

Downward rigidity is an irrelevant metric if the force on the blade is only upwards. Upwards rigidity is a lot more meaningful.

It's easier "seen" by pushing down on the blade. Lock the razor down in a vise and take a screwdriver and flex the blade upward and try it with a SC.

 

[TobyC]

At which point in those two sentences did I relate that simple test to any type of shaving exercise? lol

View attachment 816535

Nobody is trolling you Esox, what you're saying doesn't translate into how a razor behaves when you're shaving.

 

[robertj298]

Are you sure rigid is better?

 

[TobyC]

It's easier "seen" by pushing down on the blade. Lock the razor down in a vise and take a screwdriver and flex the blade upward and try it with a SC.

A wider cap will allow less movement also, but a lot of shavers have been happily using these razors, as is, for decades.

 

[rabidus]

A wider cap will allow less movement also, but a lot of shavers have been happily using these razors, as is, for decades.

I'm sure they have! For me, the NEW Deluxe and LC will tear my skin up ATG on my chin and above my lip. I can use them on the rest of my beard just fine!

If I only shave WTG, the sky is the limit. ATG, they are not rigid enough. When I shaved with cartridges, I never shaved ATG.

When did shaving ATG become a thing? Any straight razor videos I've seen, they only shave WTG.

I can wield the SC and any SE razor just fine everyday.

I'm positive my beard is more coarse than many people on this board.

Those that can use the Deluxe and LC, that's great, they all have more options than me because I can't use them for my desired results.

The Deluxe and LC was used with thicker blades also.

Carbon blades for me are garbage which was used when the NEW was new.

I don't know what kind of results those that used less rigid razors accepted. Telling me what others used successfully means absolutely nothing to me.

 

[Cal]

I'm finding some of the steep/shallow stuff mentioned above confusing.

As Rudy says, when you shave steep (riding the guard) the blade gets pushed into the cap, so there's no flex. Following on from that, if you shave shallow (riding the cap) the blade gets pushed away from the cap and flexes/chatters when there isn't sufficient baseplate support (and the pressure is enough of course).

To demonstrate what I mean, here's what happens in my case:
I have a coarse beard which grows nearly parallel to my skin rather than straight out.* This is the reason I shave steep predominantly. When I'm shaving steep WTG and XTG it cuts the hair off flat (i.e. at 90°), rather than shaving shallow which cuts the hair off at 45° leaving nasty pointed bristles.

* Due to the way my beard grows, when it comes to ATG (for the BBS shave) I need to shave shallow. Trying to do this with a non-rigid (i.e. flexing and chattering) blade is VERY uncomfortable.

 

[rabidus]

I'm finding some of the steep/shallow stuff mentioned above confusing.

As Rudy says, when you shave steep (riding the guard) the blade gets pushed into the cap, so there's no flex. Following on from that, if you shave shallow (riding the cap) the blade gets pushed away from the cap and flexes/chatters when there isn't sufficient baseplate support (and the pressure is enough of course).

To demonstrate what I mean, here's what happens in my case:
I have a coarse beard which grows nearly parallel to my skin rather than straight out.* This is the reason I shave steep predominantly. When I'm shaving steep WTG and XTG it cuts the hair off flat (i.e. at 90°), rather than shaving shallow which cuts the hair off at 45° leaving nasty pointed bristles.

* Due to the way my beard grows, when it comes to ATG (for the BBS shave) I need to shave shallow. Trying to do this with a non-rigid (i.e. flexing and chattering) blade is VERY uncomfortable.

The fact of the matter is "you know the difference" between a rigid blade and a not so rigid blade edge. And you know that a rigid blade cuts better no matter what razor you are using.

IMHO if you don't notice the difference in rigidity, that a NEW SC and postwar Tech is better than a NEW Deluxe, LC and prewar Tech, then your beard is not coarse enough for it to matter.

Trying to argue that a rigid blade edge is not better is pointless.

I've had 3 NEW Deluxe razors that were in excellent condition and neither of them were smooth ATG on my coarse areas, the SC is better.

 

[TobyC]

I'm finding some of the steep/shallow stuff mentioned above confusing.

As Rudy says, when you shave steep (riding the guard) the blade gets pushed into the cap, so there's no flex. Following on from that, if you shave shallow (riding the cap) the blade gets pushed away from the cap and flexes/chatters when there isn't sufficient baseplate support (and the pressure is enough of course).

To demonstrate what I mean, here's what happens in my case:
I have a coarse beard which grows nearly parallel to my skin rather than straight out.* This is the reason I shave steep predominantly. When I'm shaving steep WTG and XTG it cuts the hair off flat (i.e. at 90°), rather than shaving shallow which cuts the hair off at 45° leaving nasty pointed bristles.

* Due to the way my beard grows, when it comes to ATG (for the BBS shave) I need to shave shallow. Trying to do this with a non-rigid (i.e. flexing and chattering) blade is VERY uncomfortable.

Think about a block of cheese, if you push the blade straight in, it simply slices straight into the cheese, with no side pressure on the blade. If you drag the blade edge across the cheese, it's gonna chatter unless you hold the blade very close to the cutting edge, or get a thicker blade.