How do you know if your face is too sensitive for an against the growth pass versus your technique/razor/blade is bad for your face?

[rally]

I'm a twice to three times a week shaver, and my previous attempts at a three pass shave with the last pass going against the grain have led to a lot of irritation and ingrown hairs. As a result I only do two passes, with the growth and against the growth. Even with that I still have mild to moderate irritation depending on how many times I pass over the same area to get the stubborn hair that wouldn't come off the first time.

This is my routine:

1) Take a lukewarm shower
2) Wet the face
3) Apply Proraso green preshave
4) Face lather the shaving soap for 3-10 minutes to build a very voluminous and creamy lather
5) Do the with the growth pass. Short strokes, 1-3 passes depending on how much hair is left over after a stroke.
6) Do the against the growth pass
7) Rinse face with cold water, apply witch hazel, apply aftershave balm

Equipment/products:

Razor: Rockwell 6S and Merkur Futur. I use the Rockwell as my main razor with the recommended plates based on days of growth for pass 1. Pass 2 (against the growth) is always with R2 or R3 plate. R2 if it's been over four days since my last shave, R3 if it's been 3 days or less. For some reason the R2 cuts closer on the second pass if it's been a while but it's very ineffective if I'm shaving every other day.

Blade: Feather with the black cover sheet (don't know if it's any different than the yellow one). I use each blade at least three times and no more than around 7 times.

Soap: Mitchell's Wool Fat and Stirling Executive Man. I mainly use Mitchell's Wool Fat because of its superior slickness and spend 7-15 minutes to get a solid lather out of it depending on how stubborn it decides to be on the particular day. I reach for Executive Man when I'm pressed for time or when I just want to take it easy and whip up a perfect lather in a few minutes.

Brush: 24mm WCS Silvertip Badger and 26mm WCS Tuxedo knot. I use the tuxedo knot more than 90% of the time because I have an easier time lathering with it.

Preshave: Proraso Green. I use a relatively modest amount, a pinch for each cheek, a pinch for the neck, and a pinch for under the nose and chin area.

Witch Hazel: Thayers unscented. Three or four bottle flips into my palm, no bottle squeezes. I rub my hands together and apply to my face by rubbing with the growth around 10ish times, never across or against.

Aftershave balm: Stirling Executive Man balm. I draw a small line no bigger than a quarter of an inch on my fingertips, rub together, and apply the same way as the witch hazel.

 

[rally]

Forgot to mention I've been DE shaving since December 2018 so I'm close to 200 shaves in.

 

[Clay S]

Even with that I still have mild to moderate irritation depending on how many times I pass over the same area to get the stubborn hair that wouldn't come off the first time.

That makes it sound like your angle/pressure is off during that pass, for that area. Plus going over the same area multiple times without re-lathering will cause irritation.

 

[rally]

That makes it sound like your angle/pressure is off during that pass, for that area. Plus going over the same area multiple times without re-lathering will cause irritation.

What's the right angle to use? Since my first razor was the Futur which is very heavy, I did my best to use as little pressure as I could control. To get my angle set, I start with the top cap perpendicular to my skin and I gently angle the blade towards my face until I feel it touch the hair. That's the angle I try to maintain.

It's not easy when I get to the jaw area. I have a skinny face so my skin goes up and a little inward as I round my jaw before it flattens out and that's area for me to keep my angle consistent. Also my growth is very annoying. Under my chin my hair grows diagonally from my left side to the right side and where my neck starts it grows from left to right horizontally. The little section from the center of my chin to halfway across my right jaw my growth is sideways too, going left to right. The rest of my face has growth that goes from top to bottom, but in those areas I have to adjust my blade position to keep going with the growth.

 

[JCarr]

How many different blades have you tried?

 

[rally]

How many different blades have you tried?

Just the Feathers. I bought a 100 pack back when I first got into DE shaving because I was naive about skin sensitivity and thought getting a comfortable irritation-free shave was entirely based on the skill of the shaver. I have some Wilkinson Sword and Rockwell blades lying around that I might try out.

 

[Clay S]

What's the right angle to use? Since my first razor was the Futur which is very heavy, I did my best to use as little pressure as I could control. To get my angle set, I start with the top cap perpendicular to my skin and I gently angle the blade towards my face until I feel it touch the hair. That's the angle I try to maintain.

It's not easy when I get to the jaw area. I have a skinny face so my skin goes up and a little inward as I round my jaw before it flattens out and that's area for me to keep my angle consistent. Also my growth is very annoying. Under my chin my hair grows diagonally from my left side to the right side and where my neck starts it grows from left to right horizontally. The little section from the center of my chin to halfway across my right jaw my growth is sideways too, going left to right. The rest of my face has growth that goes from top to bottom, but in those areas I have to adjust my blade position to keep going with the growth.

Sounds like you start at the right angle, but as you have noticed it is hard to maintain it since your face contours change. Just do a pass and don't try to correct missed hairs as you go. Once done with a pass, you can inspect your face, and do minor touch-ups by re-wetting the spot making the soap residue slick again. If it needs more than minor touch-ups, re-lather is probably in order.

 

[xmacro]

Try shaving before showering; some people get better shaves pre shower

 

[rally]

Sounds like you start at the right angle, but as you have noticed it is hard to maintain it since your face contours change. Just do a pass and don't try to correct missed hairs as you go. Once done with a pass, you can inspect your face, and do minor touch-ups by re-wetting the spot making the soap residue slick again. If it needs more than minor touch-ups, re-lather is probably in order.

Thanks, I'll try that out and report back tomorrow. I'm sporting around two weeks of growth right now, so I'll probably use the Futur on 3 or 4 for the first pass and hop back over to the Rockwell R2 plate for the second pass. Any suggestions for against the growth? I've tried against the growth maybe 15 times overall, but most of those attempts were in my first 75 shaves. The last time I tried it must have been over 6 months ago, but I remember having a constantly itchy face followed by a lot of ingrown hairs on my neck and some pimples. I used the R2 plate on that try if I remember correctly.

 

[rally]

Try shaving before showering; some people get better shaves pre shower

I have very coarse growth and I find that my hair is very wiry if I shave without showering. Even with 5ish minutes of rubbing warm water against my face, almost all of it drips off and the hair still feels very stiff.

 

[Clay S]

Thanks, I'll try that out and report back tomorrow. I'm sporting around two weeks of growth right now, so I'll probably use the Futur on 3 or 4 for the first pass and hop back over to the Rockwell R2 plate for the second pass. Any suggestions for against the growth? I've tried against the growth maybe 15 times overall, but most of those attempts were in my first 75 shaves. The last time I tried it must have been over 6 months ago, but I remember having a constantly itchy face followed by a lot of ingrown hairs on my neck and some pimples. I used the R2 plate on that try if I remember correctly.

I don't have a lot of experience with ingrowns. If your hair curls a lot, you might want to do an XTG (across the grain) pass as your final pass. It will be closer than the WTG pass, but not quite as close as the ATG pass would be.

 

[rally]

I don't have a lot of experience with ingrowns. If your hair curls a lot, you might want to do an XTG (across the grain) pass as your final pass. It will be closer than the WTG pass, but not quite as close as the ATG pass would be.

That's my usual routine, first pass WTG and second pass XTG. Sometimes I try a third pass XTG in the opposite direction.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Clay S]

That's my usual routine, first pass WTG and second pass XTG. Sometimes I try a third pass XTG in the opposite direction.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Sounds goods. If your beard isn't that curly, I would continue to try ATG every few shaves and evaluate if it is going better. Perhaps try steep shaving(guard riding) the ATG pass.

Hopefully someone with more ingrown experience will chime in.

You have read The Wanderers Guide To DE Shaving - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/the-wanderers-guide-to-de-shaving.532194/? It has some great info.

 

[Invicta]

Just the Feathers. I bought a 100 pack back when I first got into DE shaving because I was naive about skin sensitivity and thought getting a comfortable irritation-free shave was entirely based on the skill of the shaver.

It is worth trying different blades. I find Astra SP and Gillette Silver Blue have a good combination of sharpness and smoothness. Blade grinds do seem to make a difference.

Any suggestions for against the growth? I've tried against the growth maybe 15 times overall......

It may be the stubble is too long for that final ATG pass. Using the DE is about gradual reduction so if you are starting with 3 days growth 2 passes may not be getting close enough for that ATG pass; this is just a guess. You may want to try two XTG passes {opposite direction} for the 2nd and 3rd passes to see if you can get a closer shave. It is really about trying all the different options.
I do four passes but can get away with three if I adjust the final pass in various areas. I am a daily shaver and like shaving that way.

Face lather the shaving soap for 3-10 minutes to build a very voluminous and creamy lather..

Voluminous lather may not be beneficial as most of it is removed before the blade gets there. It is the dense slick lather you need to aim for. However with three days growth the lather will be deeper because of the longer stubble.
It also worth trying 3-4 drops of glycerine in your lather for additional slickness; another option.

 

[Howdy72]

I also use the Astra Superior Platinum Double Edge Razor and have had very good luck with them and a lack of skin irritation as long as I don't press too hard, or try to go over the same area multiple times without shaving soap when trying to get some of the leftover hairs especially in the areas that you mentioned on your face.

You also might want to check a couple samples of some different soaps because I found that there is quite a bit of difference between different manufacturers with their varied base soaps and the difference in the shave and post feel can be significant.

 

[BigJ]

Some great advice above!

I have little to add other than that you might try two XTG passes in opposite directions rather than ATG. In addition, you should map your beard to understand precisely what you are doing in the problem areas.

 

[KrstGor]

I'm a twice to three times a week shaver, and my previous attempts at a three pass shave with the last pass going against the grain have led to a lot of irritation and ingrown hairs. As a result I only do two passes, with the growth and against the growth. Even with that I still have mild to moderate irritation depending on how many times I pass over the same area to get the stubborn hair that wouldn't come off the first time.

This is my routine:

1) Take a lukewarm shower
2) Wet the face
3) Apply Proraso green preshave
4) Face lather the shaving soap for 3-10 minutes to build a very voluminous and creamy lather
5) Do the with the growth pass. Short strokes, 1-3 passes depending on how much hair is left over after a stroke.
6) Do the against the growth pass
7) Rinse face with cold water, apply witch hazel, apply aftershave balm

Equipment/products:

Razor: Rockwell 6S and Merkur Futur. I use the Rockwell as my main razor with the recommended plates based on days of growth for pass 1. Pass 2 (against the growth) is always with R2 or R3 plate. R2 if it's been over four days since my last shave, R3 if it's been 3 days or less. For some reason the R2 cuts closer on the second pass if it's been a while but it's very ineffective if I'm shaving every other day.

Blade: Feather with the black cover sheet (don't know if it's any different than the yellow one). I use each blade at least three times and no more than around 7 times.

Soap: Mitchell's Wool Fat and Stirling Executive Man. I mainly use Mitchell's Wool Fat because of its superior slickness and spend 7-15 minutes to get a solid lather out of it depending on how stubborn it decides to be on the particular day. I reach for Executive Man when I'm pressed for time or when I just want to take it easy and whip up a perfect lather in a few minutes.

Brush: 24mm WCS Silvertip Badger and 26mm WCS Tuxedo knot. I use the tuxedo knot more than 90% of the time because I have an easier time lathering with it.

Preshave: Proraso Green. I use a relatively modest amount, a pinch for each cheek, a pinch for the neck, and a pinch for under the nose and chin area.

Witch Hazel: Thayers unscented. Three or four bottle flips into my palm, no bottle squeezes. I rub my hands together and apply to my face by rubbing with the growth around 10ish times, never across or against.

Aftershave balm: Stirling Executive Man balm. I draw a small line no bigger than a quarter of an inch on my fingertips, rub together, and apply the same way as the witch hazel.

Your pre-shave prep is pretty much identical to mine and seemingly everything should be just fine, BUT...

Much more often than not, things boil down to 1) too much pressure and 2) going over them same spot over and over again, almost subconsciously. This is especially true if you practice those multiple short strokes. It feels natural, but this is the worst habit and IMHO #1 cause of irritation, as you scrap the skin.

It might seem hard, but try doing longer gliding passes and ONLY ONE at a time. As a rule - no lather - no shave.

P.s.: Feather with black cover are pack of 5, yellow cover is pack of 10, no difference between blades.

 

[musicman1951]

That makes it sound like your angle/pressure is off during that pass, for that area. Plus going over the same area multiple times without re-lathering will cause irritation.

I agree. If the razor isn't cutting the angle is off.

I'd try very short strokes in that area and some experimenting with razor angle. It will either get better or worse. If it gets worse go the other way (duh!).

Good luck.

 

[Mitzie]

The safest way is to lather on top of a good face wash product and pre shave oil rubbed in, then try lathering and shaving ATG. I normally do this as my 1st pass, before my skin has become too tender and sensitized due to prolonged contact with the lather.

 

[Tarak83]

I have a sensitive neck and have struggled with ATG shaving. I have found Feathers just don’t seem to work well for me. Astra SP and Nacets have been better.

Amazon, Maggards, and others sell blade sample packs and that is definitely worth it. You may find a different razor/blade combo works better for you.