Advise on natural finishing stones

[Tomo]

I’ve recently turned a corner with my straight razor shaving and am starting to get superior results to DE. I’d like to continue with straight razors and add a natural finishing stone to my collection. With so many types I’m looking for some advise on the best and finest grit natural finishing stones.

I already have a full suite of lapping films and diamond pasted balsa strops. My edges are very sharp and I don’t really need a natural stone for sharpness. For some reason I am still interested to try one just for refreshing the edge periodically. I have never been a fan of synthetic anything so the idea of a natural stone appeals to me on that level. For any major work or bevel setting the full lapping film progression is on hand if required.

So what gives the best final edge prior to moving to balsa?

Zulu grey, Coticule, Jnat, Arkansas Black, Japanese? Is it possible to list these in order of fineness or is there simply too much natural variation? Are there any good suppliers out there for these?

Thanks in advance.

 

[seattleshaver]

If you are going to move on to balsa with paste that will be your final edge the rest won't make much of a difference. Any of them would work (with the right specific stone).

I used an inexpensive stone marketed as "tsushima ocean blue" it works. I've used the "Cnat", it works too.

 

[seattleshaver]

If you are going to move on to balsa with paste that will be your final edge the rest won't make much of a difference. Any of them would work (with the right specific stone).

I used an inexpensive stone marketed as "tsushima ocean blue" it works. I've used the "Cnat", it works too. Coticules can be pretty and fun to work with as can Jnats.

 

[Tomo]

If you are going to move on to balsa with paste that will be your final edge the rest won't make much of a difference. Any of them would work (with the right specific stone).

I used an inexpensive stone marketed as "tsushima ocean blue" it works. I've used the "Cnat", it works too. Coticules can be pretty and fun to work with as can Jnats.

Would something like this be an option and not too big of a jump to 0.5um diamond?

Belgian Blue Whetstone - 300 x 100mm (12x4") Natural Straight Razor Sharpening Hone Stone with Slurry Stone

NOTE: Stone shown is a stock photo. These are natural stones, so their appearance may vary slightly from the photos shown. Each stone has been lapped flat by us and will include a slurry stone. The Belgian Blue Whetstone is a natural sharpening stone from the atelier of Ardennes Coticule, the...

www.griffithshavinggoods.com

 

[SliceOfLife]

Just get a synthetic to use before your paste. There’s no reason to bother with a natural finish prior to going to paste. A synthetic will be faster.

 

[seattleshaver]

Would something like this be an option and not too big of a jump to 0.5um diamond?

Belgian Blue Whetstone - 300 x 100mm (12x4") Natural Straight Razor Sharpening Hone Stone with Slurry Stone

NOTE: Stone shown is a stock photo. These are natural stones, so their appearance may vary slightly from the photos shown. Each stone has been lapped flat by us and will include a slurry stone. The Belgian Blue Whetstone is a natural sharpening stone from the atelier of Ardennes Coticule, the...

www.griffithshavinggoods.com

I have no experience with something like that. IMO it's just whatever strikes your fancy. I have smaller, $40 hones that work as well as anyother IMO so it's hard to give advice.

 

[lloydw]

I believe there is just too much variation to define the fineness you ask of. how much time and enthusiasm you have for learning and refining is important too. I would not use balsa and paste after this finisher if you want to feel the edge from the natural, just my opinion.

If you are used to the consistency and ease of the synthetic films and pastes and just looking for something to finish on, I would suggest the Zulu grey, Escher (if $ allow) or even a thuringian or some of the slate options. Stones such as the Imperia La Roccia or Vermio hone (both I haven’t tried personally) could also apply here. The Apache Strata is also a great, easy finisher but not easily available unfortunately. These, in my opinion, would be easy to just pick up and use, pretty foolproof finishers if the earlier work is done.

I use coticule for smoothness and comfort - I cannot get the sharpest edge off them but I get comfortable, smooth shaves. Many also talk of having to unlock their specific coti’s, dial them in. Maybe I haven’t been able to do that on my stones but after so many years, I am not really trying to anymore. There’s also an element of getting the right stone of course.

Somewhat similar with the jnats - finding the right stone and aligning your use of it can take some time. There’s also the Nagura to consider in cost and time for learning. One stone plus Nagura can replace all others and is often a justification by some for the expense, but you already have your sharpening set up. Jnats can also be expensive if you use the reliable sources and even from them you have many variations you need to learn and align with.

I have not tried the Arkansas stones myself so cannot comment.

For Zulu greys or Apache - look at BST here and other forums. They do pop up.
For coticule, look at Ardennes direct or their resellers, quick google searches. eBay too
For jnat, I bought from forum members many years ago and not really up to speed on the latest sources so will let others comment.

For me and my shaving - I have had time recently to play with many variations - synthetics then naturals, coticules (Red then yellow) then jnat or Zulu or Escher. It is fun but takes time. I find consistently sharp, smooth and quick results when I use the synthetics up to 12k then use one of the finishers - Escher, Zulu grey, Apache. For jnat - I get the same but go to 8k only, and then a Tomo slurry to water-only dilution but it takes a little longer. Different razors will also introduce variety in the results.

Too many options in naturals and definitely some fun had in the experimenting.
I am no expert but I hope that helps.

good luck

 

[Tomo]

I believe there is just too much variation to define the fineness you ask of. how much time and enthusiasm you have for learning and refining is important too. I would not use balsa and paste after this finisher if you want to feel the edge from the natural, just my opinion.

If you are used to the consistency and ease of the synthetic films and pastes and just looking for something to finish on, I would suggest the Zulu grey, Escher (if $ allow) or even a thuringian or some of the slate options. Stones such as the Imperia La Roccia or Vermio hone (both I haven’t tried personally) could also apply here. The Apache Strata is also a great, easy finisher but not easily available unfortunately. These, in my opinion, would be easy to just pick up and use, pretty foolproof finishers if the earlier work is done.

I use coticule for smoothness and comfort - I cannot get the sharpest edge off them but I get comfortable, smooth shaves. Many also talk of having to unlock their specific coti’s, dial them in. Maybe I haven’t been able to do that on my stones but after so many years, I am not really trying to anymore. There’s also an element of getting the right stone of course.

Somewhat similar with the jnats - finding the right stone and aligning your use of it can take some time. There’s also the Nagura to consider in cost and time for learning. One stone plus Nagura can replace all others and is often a justification by some for the expense, but you already have your sharpening set up. Jnats can also be expensive if you use the reliable sources and even from them you have many variations you need to learn and align with.

I have not tried the Arkansas stones myself so cannot comment.

For Zulu greys or Apache - look at BST here and other forums. They do pop up.
For coticule, look at Ardennes direct or their resellers, quick google searches. eBay too
For jnat, I bought from forum members many years ago and not really up to speed on the latest sources so will let others comment.

For me and my shaving - I have had time recently to play with many variations - synthetics then naturals, coticules (Red then yellow) then jnat or Zulu or Escher. It is fun but takes time. I find consistently sharp, smooth and quick results when I use the synthetics up to 12k then use one of the finishers - Escher, Zulu grey, Apache. For jnat - I get the same but go to 8k only, and then a Tomo slurry to water-only dilution but it takes a little longer. Different razors will also introduce variety in the results.

Too many options in naturals and definitely some fun had in the experimenting.
I am no expert but I hope that helps.

good luck

Good advise. I think I will stick with my current set up for my daily drivers and have a play around with the stones on a separate razor to see what they are like.

I think the natural stones add to the old school charm of the straight razor shaving process. I’m not willing to sacrifice the excellent results I’m already getting entirely though either.

 

[RayClem]

I have quite a few natural finishing stones: Coticule, modern Thuringian, Yellow Lake Welch slate, Zulu Grey, Chinese Guangxi, Tsushima Ocean Blue, Vermont green slate, Greek Vermio, Imperia la Roccia, hard black Arkansas, Anchor Finishing Hone (Rhode Island cumberlandite), and Whiteheart sandstone. If you are using pasted strops following your finisher, any one of the above can produce a good shaving edge. Of those above, my favorites are the Greek Vermio, the Imperia la Roccia and the Zulu Grey. However, every natural stone is unique and will vary in fineness and density. The reason I have so many stones is that you really have to experiment to learn what works for you on your razors. Japanese Naturals can be great, but there are many variations and there can be a steep learning curve in using them; that is why I do not have a traditional JNAT.

If you are fortunate enough to get a good specimen, the Imperia la Roccia or ILR stone is one of the easiest to use. You can use either slurry or water and the stone becomes very "sticky" as you approach the final edge. You finish under running water. However, as with any natural stone, there is always a risk that the one you purchase won't work for you.

As has already been said, there is less risk in purchasing synthetic stones. Many people finish on Naniwa 12K superstones. If you want to go even higher, you can get one of the expensive Suehiro Gokumyo 20K synthetics. I have one and it can produce a fantastic edge, but I still use naturals as well.

 

[LJS]

Like what was said, if you finish on balsa then the preceding edge just needs to be sharp and true. For that you don't need the nuance of a natural finishing stone. The pasted balsa will dominate and you won’t know if it was a fantastic natural or tried and true synth. Just get the synth. Fast and consistent. When you want to try some smoothed out and sharp edges with different feel, then maybe consider some natural finishers.

 

[Adonay]

The fact is that natural sharpening stones are not an exact science. Each stone is different from the other. Even in stones of the same type there is a difference in fineness in the grain. Any of the stones you mentioned can be fine. Within the same type of stone there are those that will give a finer edge than others.
In my opinion, depending on the stone, not always the finest is the best. There are stones that leave the edge thin but not as comfortable as others. There are those that make the skin more irritated. There are those that will facilitate folliculitis. In the end is to test what suits your profile.

 

[Tomo]

The dark art of natural stones....

Fascinating.

 

[CCR]

I'am leaning toward the Imperial La Roccia premium 15K and a 8000k Shapton to start out with and get the Balsa later.

 

[stone and strop]

Its pointless to use a natural then override it with pastes and such.

If you are interested in only using a natural to finish then an Escher would be the most consistent high quality finisher.
There are many nice natural finishers but the variety among them can be vast.
If you want synthetic, a 20k Gokumyo would blow your mind.

 

[SliceOfLife]

I can't comment on the ILR's, never tried them, but several members have; I'll let them comment. But Shapton 8000 is almost sharp enough to shave off itself (you can shave but it's not amazing). Why not just get the shapton and Balsa now if that's the finish you want, wouldn't that be cheaper? I think you're doing the reverse of most beginners who start on balsa + chromox (because its cheap) and then try stone finishes as an upgrade when they decide to invest more. If ILR isn't a better finish than balsa+chromox, there's no reason I can see to buy it... so "upgrading" from it to balsa doesn't make sense to me.

 

[MO1]

A hard finishing jnat for me. No need to be discouraged by its learning curve, no voodoo magic. It's just fine loose abrasive on a hard finisher which is too fine to be used with only water. Experiment and adjust the amount of abrasive (slurry) accordingly. No need to make it more complicated than it has to be.
They are very flexible stones, that's what I like most about them.

 

[CCR]

I can't comment on the ILR's, never tried them, but several members have; I'll let them comment. But Shapton 8000 is almost sharp enough to shave off itself (you can shave but it's not amazing). Why not just get the shapton and Balsa now if that's the finish you want, wouldn't that be cheaper? I think you're doing the reverse of most beginners who start on balsa + chromox (because its cheap) and then try stone finishes as an upgrade when they decide to invest more. If ILR isn't a better finish than balsa+chromox, there's no reason I can see to buy it... so "upgrading" from it to balsa doesn't make sense to me.

As of right now i just have lapping film 3um and 1um and an old strop that is in okay shape but not great. Only reason i picked up the strop really was the price and to rob it's hardware so i could make my own strop..
Out of the 7 SR i recently picked up the film has made them all shaver's and one Boker has a very tiny chip that you can only see with a magnifier so i need to get maybe a 1k and 5k maybe? I really don't want to go the wet/dry sandpaper route

 

[RumpleBearskin]

Just my two cents here... I used a synthetic progression for the first two years of my honing journey and diamond pasted balsa for the last 18 months of that. Great edges and they've been wonderful for for learning honing technique and steel characteristics.

A couple of months ago I got my first natural; a new coticule bout of unknown vein. It's been great fun leaning the zen of slurry dilutions. I still use the pasted balsa for final finishing and maintenance and I can't tell you if my edge is "coticule" or "diamond", but I can tell you it is both sharp and (reasonably) forgiving. I've enjoyed it so much that I now have added a les latenuses bout and am in the process of learning it. The hybrid side adds yet another layer of mystery and zen to the whole process.

So those two cents? Choosing to use a natural doesn't have to be about the characteristic edge. It can just be about the fun of rubbing steel on (real) rocks and learning how to get the most from them despite their (natural) idiosyncrasies.

 

[Matt O]

If you are jumping to paste, I recommend using a purple welsh from that AJ fellow on eBay located in the U.K. They are inexpensive, a joy to hone on, and one would be perfect for your stated purpose.

For final finishers...my two favorites are my Ancient Ocean Jaspers and Charnley Forest

Vr

Matt

 

[SliceOfLife]

3 micron film should be ballpark similar grit to a 5k JIS stone... so if you buy a 5k you'd just be replacing the film.

A beveler/chip remover is useful if you plan to keep buying razors that will need to be repaired or beveled. 1k-2k is what most people like to use. I wouldn't consider it worthwhile if you're done buying razors though and just need to remove that one chip... that'll be doable on the 3mu film with a little time.

1 micron film should be fine to shave off (not speaking from experience), but pasted balsa or leather may improve the shaves for you, as could any number of stones.


Are you looking to improve your edges? Be able to easily remove chips? Replace your films with something that will last longer without replacing it?

There's a lot of stones/hones out there. If you're sure what you want one for there will be plenty of folks with recommendations.