Help! I've Fallen and Can't Get Up (Should I spend the extra $$ for a high end badger?)

[Chumango]

My history:

I face lather. For five years I have used Omega boars – mostly 10066 and 10049. They have worked, but of late I started wondering what I was missing. My lathers had not been entirely consistent or satisfying. Sure, maybe I have been getting lazy, but it has always been true with these brushes.

I tried a synthetic and fell in love. So soft, but mostly I was impressed with how easily and consistently I was getting superb lather from all my soaps, including some that I had long considered mediocre. I fell down that rabbit hole, and I now have Tuxedo, Synbad, and Plissoft type knots (and a Franks Pur-Tech on the way). They are all different, but they all have worked well.

And badger. I have a cheap Escali my son gave me, but I have never used it much – mostly due to how much it sheds and not getting the best lather from it. As I read how many of you prefer badger brushes, curiosity got the best of me. I got a WCS 26 mm silvertip, with a 52 mm loft as I measure it. I have used it the last three days, learning its idiosyncrasies for building a good lather. I quite like it. For me, it seems to have a good balance of face feel and backbone. It does seem to hog the lather a bit, though. Maybe that will work out as I learn more about how it behaves.

It is large, though. Bloomed it is larger than I would like, almost as large as most of my soap pucks. So I am debating getting something a bit smaller, and curiosity strikes again. I could look for something from Yaqi, Maseto, Whipped Dog, etc. But the question remains:

Just what will the extra $80-100+ give me if I get something like a Shavemac silvertip? Will it wow me and make me say, “Now this is a nice brush!”? Or will it be more like a small incremental improvement? I am teetering on the edge of another (more expensive) rabbit hole.

Besides Shavemac, anything else that might fit the bill but not be $200+?

I have also considered that I might end up with the higher end brushes eventually, so why get more of the budget ones? Why not just go where I may (probably?) end up anyway?

FWIW, this WCS silvertip seems pretty dense to me. It has far more hair than a similarly sized Omega boar (10049). The loft seems about right for me, as does the backbone. I don’t know that I want to go to 2 band silvertip if it will have a whole lot more backbone.

 

[brucered]

The brush has nothing to do with lather quality

 

[Chumango]

The brush has nothing to do with lather quality

That has not been my experience. Maybe in a general sense, but I don't think it is universally true. Some certainly get there a lot more easily.

 

[brucered]

That has not been my experience. Maybe in a general sense, but I don't think it is universally true. Some certainly get there a lot more easily.

If people are buying $200+ brushes to make better lather, they are using it as a crutch.

User error is to blame if you can't make a good lather with a $10 boar, $15 synthetic or $20 whipped dog

That said, most of my brushes are high end. But my $10 synthetics and boars stand side by side with them, literally and figuratively.

This has been my experience

 

[Ivo4u2]

Uh call 911?

completely happy with my synthetics. And even these exhibit different characteristics some lather easier as others.
So yes there is a difference the big one is if you have a superb brush will a new one wow you! Or will it be mweeeh allmost identical tooo.

and it is not only knot, I have a deep bowl so I like longer handles though I have Shorties on holiday for a lower bowl. Always have to get used to that.

 

[NPK]

Uh call 911?

 

[vincentshumai]

Thought about spluring on a high end badger too but Im happy with my synthetics. I just ordered a Shavemac synthetic as my first "high end" brush.

 

[Badgerstate36]

If you can afford it and want a high-end badger, I say go for it. Life is too short not to. Ive used boars, synthetics and badgers and they all make good lather. I do feel like the boars takes a bit more work to make great lather but the synthetics are stupid easy to make lather with.
Lately Ive been using smaller Simpson brushes and I really like the more luxurious feel and old world style of them. Im not sure that I would ever go all out and get something like a Chubby 2, not because they arent great brushes but because my $20-$40 19mm Simpsons work really well for me. I only shave my neck, so I dont really need a bigger brush anyways.

 

[Omarz]

Try bowl lathering. the only difference with a brush is the speed of the lather not quality of it ,I have a 30 aud pure badger that until recently out performed a 60 aud synth brush so it’s not really how much you pay or type of bristles, really your paying for a softer brush the softness of the brush doesn’t dictate how good your lather is what so ever it’s just how fast it whips up. As I said above bowl lather and it will give you more control of consistency of the lather and you can get an amazing lather from a ok soap when I first wet shaved I used bar soap with a boar brush I didn’t like how much scrub the boar had so I switched to a pure badger the only difference was how fast it whipped up. And it worked sort of.( don’t judge I didn’t know you are ment to use proper shaving soap back then soap was just soap to me)

 

[old_school]

...I have also considered that I might end up with the higher end brushes eventually, so why get more of the budget ones? Why not just go where I may (probably?) end up anyway?

FWIW, this WCS silvertip seems pretty dense to me. It has far more hair than a similarly sized Omega boar (10049). The loft seems about right for me, as does the backbone. I don’t know that I want to go to 2 band silvertip if it will have a whole lot more backbone.

Why get budget brushes? To eliminate possibilities and minimize tough excuses to the Financial Minister. No argument a house brand 2-Band isn't the same as a high dollar 2-Band. But a WCS or Maggard's 2-Band (Finest) will teach you something against your WCS 3-Band at a reasonable cost.

I recently sold a pile of 2-Bands brushes, the casualties from an effort to assess the love for this hair. GREAT hair, kept two and acquired two. Specifically kept an Envy White bulb, Maggards 22mm 2-Band bulb and acquired a Semogue 2013 Barbear Classico Texudo and a shavemac D01 2-Band.

IMHO if you want a brush you will never sell get a Simpson G2 in Pure hair or order a shavemac 22x46 bulb in Pure. These are without a doubt the finest face lathering machines being produced right now at any price. You can have 5 of them for the price of one Simpson in Manchurian or some of the other other popular high end brushes. But you will read very little about them. Of course my flavor of brush is mine, so the recommendation is worth exactly what you paid for it. AKA - YMMV.

 

[Timeclo]

In my experience, synthetics give the best lather as they do not absorb water/soap like the natural hairs do. That said, badgers do have a nice face feel. If you want to go for a more expensive badger, it's more for the face feel than the performance of the lather. Especially with SHD knots, lathering can get a bit more challenging.

Yaqi badgers are nice but it's not the best out there. I'd say it's a good starting point. It definitely lathers up well but the face feel is okay. If you like mid-high backbone, give the SHD knots a try. Maggard sells them for 40-50 bucks and you can get different variations of them from vendors like TDR, Elite, Oumo, Vikings, etcs. I haven't tried Shavemac brushes but I do enjoy my SHD Oumo brushes a lot. It's harder to lather sometimes but the face feel is amazing.

 

[BigJ]

You really need to try things for yourself!

For me, badgers simply make me ‘smile’ in the AM!! I started with boars, but in the end, I turned out to be a ‘badger boy.’ And, the world of badgers is HUGE!

The main thing is that compared to custom fly rods, sail boats, or other hobbies that I have tried ’traditional’ wet shaving is a BARGAIN!! Plus, I get to use my kit every day!!

 

[EclipseRedRing]

The brush has nothing to do with lather quality

I am not sure that is quite true or at least not that simplistic. Whilst it is perfectly possible to make a good lather with practically any brush, and with enough time and effort, to say the brush has 'nothing' to do with lather quality does not sit quote right with me. There are certainly several factors affecting lather quality such as water, soap, lathering technique and others; I suggest the brush is also one such factor. I would agree that a more expensive brush will not necessarily make a better lather and may in fact make a worse one.

 

[Atlantic59]

...it’s not really how much you pay or type of bristles, really your paying for a softer brush the softness of the brush doesn’t dictate how good your lather is what so ever it’s just how fast it whips up...

Exactly. You only need a decent brush. Past that point you are really paying for a luxury experience or a brand name.

 

[brucered]

I am not sure that is quite true or at least not that simplistic. Whilst it is perfectly possible to make a good lather with practically any brush, and with enough time and effort, to say the brush has 'nothing' to do with lather quality does not sit quote right with me. There are certainly several factors affecting lather quality such as water, soap, lathering technique and others; I suggest the brush is also one such factor. I would agree that a more expensive brush will not necessarily make a better lather and may in fact make a worse one.

Ok. You know my stance so I won't argue

 

[Chandu]

After reading threads here recently about trying to clean some of the cheap badger brushes from China, I’d steer clear and go with a European supplier that has a name to live up to. Simpson, Plisson, Shavemac and so on. $100 will get you a nice brush more will get you an even better brush but its an area of diminishing returns.

Do some searching here and read threads about brushes that peak your interest.

Badger is my favorite.

 

[boilerphan]

A good mid value option is to buy from an artisan and there are many options. Here's a few:

1. Custom brush from Rudy Vey with Shavemac lot.
2. That Darn Rob handle with Fanchurian knot.
3. Turn n Shave handle with tip knot
4. Brad Sears Brushworks - a little more expensive than the above three options, but Brad is sourcing very high quality knots
5. Paladin Shaving - you can sometimes find some of their 26mm start around $160-$170. Also sell "Barely seconds" brushes at a discount.

 

[RayClem]

You can learn to make a great lather with any brush as long as you are using a good soap, but some brushes will get their more easily.

If you like the feel of a soft brush on your face, I recommend Maggard Razor Super High Density two-band badger knots. Although not guaranteed to so so, my tips gel together when wet.

I made the mistake of purchasing a 28mm bulb knot and it is huge after blooming. I would suggest a 24-26mm knot, but you can get them as small as 20mm. You have to purchase the knots and handles separately and glue the knot into the handle using silicone, epoxy or other adhesive.

 

[steveclarkus]

My history:

I face lather. For five years I have used Omega boars – mostly 10066 and 10049. They have worked, but of late I started wondering what I was missing. My lathers had not been entirely consistent or satisfying. Sure, maybe I have been getting lazy, but it has always been true with these brushes.

I tried a synthetic and fell in love. So soft, but mostly I was impressed with how easily and consistently I was getting superb lather from all my soaps, including some that I had long considered mediocre. I fell down that rabbit hole, and I now have Tuxedo, Synbad, and Plissoft type knots (and a Franks Pur-Tech on the way). They are all different, but they all have worked well.

And badger. I have a cheap Escali my son gave me, but I have never used it much – mostly due to how much it sheds and not getting the best lather from it. As I read how many of you prefer badger brushes, curiosity got the best of me. I got a WCS 26 mm silvertip, with a 52 mm loft as I measure it. I have used it the last three days, learning its idiosyncrasies for building a good lather. I quite like it. For me, it seems to have a good balance of face feel and backbone. It does seem to hog the lather a bit, though. Maybe that will work out as I learn more about how it behaves.

It is large, though. Bloomed it is larger than I would like, almost as large as most of my soap pucks. So I am debating getting something a bit smaller, and curiosity strikes again. I could look for something from Yaqi, Maseto, Whipped Dog, etc. But the question remains:

Just what will the extra $80-100+ give me if I get something like a Shavemac silvertip? Will it wow me and make me say, “Now this is a nice brush!”? Or will it be more like a small incremental improvement? I am teetering on the edge of another (more expensive) rabbit hole.

Besides Shavemac, anything else that might fit the bill but not be $200+?

I have also considered that I might end up with the higher end brushes eventually, so why get more of the budget ones? Why not just go where I may (probably?) end up anyway?

FWIW, this WCS silvertip seems pretty dense to me. It has far more hair than a similarly sized Omega boar (10049). The loft seems about right for me, as does the backbone. I don’t know that I want to go to 2 band silvertip if it will have a whole lot more backbone.

Brushes are a very personal item. I have a large Vulfix silvertip but much prefer my old well used 10048. It is just a personal preference thing. I’ve used the Omega boar for 11 years or so but keep another 10048 and 10049 in reserve. I may sell the Vulfix.

 

[Merle]

If I had to name one of the Simpson brushes I thought demonstrated the best of the badger designs I would offer up the Emperor in size 2. This pattern gives you a good hand on the grip and length of hair to clear many of the bowls used for preparing your lather. The bristle is dense and face feel is luxury. When lathering a lanolin soap like Barrister and Mann you'll enjoy the best of all worlds and it could set the standard for you by which all other shaving soaps and brushes are compared.