Feather SS Vs Kai Captain.

[rs_776]

I think when you use Kai you need be extremely careful with the blade angle etc .
At the same time, I heard Kai is made from brass. So how is the durability of the razor (Is blade locking mechanism etc etc prone get damaged with use ) ?
The feather handle is said to withstand higher temperatures. So how do the Kai kamisori handle face such abuse ? ( Will the rubber peel off )

The Kai is made from Stainless Steel. I am not sure why anyone would suspect it is made from brass.

kai Beauty Care

Für alle die Wert auf ein gepflegtes Äußeres legen, bietet kai Beauty Care hochwertige Instrumente der täglichen Körperpflege in bewährter Qualität.

www.kai-europe.com

The Kai scales are plastic (except on the Zebrano version) and can withstand boiling water. Same goes for the rubber on the J-type. Scales are also removable on the folding version, so the metal components can be even be autoclaved.

The angle on the Kai will be no different than the Feather DX but certainly different from the SS as stated above.

The Kai and Feather products are both made for professional use, and the build quality between the two are quite comparable.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

 

[Rschan]

Thank you Sir That is very helpful.

 

[aussie]

BTW I've read some where that it is bit difficult to do an ATG under the neck with an SS because of the bump, is there any truth ?

Well that has not been my experience.

I now also have the CJB and it shave much like the DX. My recommendation is to begin with the SS. The learning curve is slightly less steep than for the DX, and it is much cheaper.

I believe the Kai Captain is plated brass.

 

[kingfisher]

I think the confusion about the construction of the Kai is easily explained. As I understand it, the Kai Captain is made of brass but the Kai Captain Excelia is made of stainless steel.

 

[rs_776]

I believe the Kai Captain is plated brass.

Kai Captain is not plated brass. It is stainless.

 

[rs_776]

I think the confusion about the construction of the Kai is easily explained. As I understand it, the Kai Captain is made of brass but the Kai Captain Excelia is made of stainless steel.

The Captain Standard, Excelia, and Zebrano are all made from stainless steel. See link below:

kai Beauty Care - https://www.kai-europe.com/beautycare/captainrazors.php?lang=en

I'm not sure where the "plated brass" rumor began. It is possible that earlier version were brass, but the current product line is stainless steel and has been for many years. I believe the Feather RG (precursor to the DX) was made from brass.

 

[kingfisher]

The Captain Standard, Excelia, and Zebrano are all made from stainless steel. See link below:

kai Beauty Care - https://www.kai-europe.com/beautycare/captainrazors.php?lang=en

I'm not sure where the "plated brass" rumor began. It is possible that earlier version were brass, but the current product line is stainless steel and has been for many years. I believe the Feather RG (precursor to the DX) was made from brass.

Thanks for the clarification. The RG was definitely brass.

 

[Rschan]

 

[Rschan]

The Kai is made from Stainless Steel. I am not sure why anyone would suspect it is made from brass.

kai Beauty Care

Für alle die Wert auf ein gepflegtes Äußeres legen, bietet kai Beauty Care hochwertige Instrumente der täglichen Körperpflege in bewährter Qualität.

www.kai-europe.com

The Kai scales are plastic (except on the Zebrano version) and can withstand boiling water. Same goes for the rubber on the J-type. Scales are also removable on the folding version, so the metal components can be even be autoclaved.

The angle on the Kai will be no different than the Feather DX but certainly different from the SS as stated above.

The Kai and Feather products are both made for professional use, and the build quality between the two are quite comparable.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

Currently I'm using straights. Since I'm not a newbe to straights I might find the kai captain ok.
That's my assumption. Still I'm bit confused as to buy which one ?
BTW the Kai website says that the handle of the J type is plastic !! Is it really rubber or plastic (since you have one )?

 

[rs_776]

Currently I'm using straights. Since I'm not a newbe to straights I might find the kai captain ok.
That's my assumption. Still I'm bit confused as to buy which one ?
BTW the Kai website says that the handle of the J type is plastic !! Is it really rubber or plastic (since you have one )?

Unfortunately I only have the folding version. I have a knockoff of the Kai J-type (Univinlions), which has a rubber grip. That said, I am quite confident the Kai J-type uses a rubber grip, not a hard plastic. The discrepancy can probably be explained as a translation error.

I will confirm with an actual user and let you know.

**EDIT** Confirmed! Silicone rubber.

 

[Rschan]

Unfortunately I only have the folding version. I have a knockoff of the Kai J-type (Univinlions), which has a rubber grip. That said, I am quite confident the Kai J-type uses a rubber grip, not a hard plastic. The discrepancy can probably be explained as a translation error.

I will confirm with an actual user and let you know.

**EDIT** Confirmed! Silicone rubber.

Thank you indeed Sir

 

[StillShaving]

The Captain Standard, Excelia, and Zebrano are all made from stainless steel. See link below:

kai Beauty Care - https://www.kai-europe.com/beautycare/captainrazors.php?lang=en

I'm not sure where the "plated brass" rumor began. It is possible that earlier version were brass, but the current product line is stainless steel and has been for many years. I believe the Feather RG (precursor to the DX) was made from brass.

Why is the Excelia so much more expensive than the Captain? (I did not open the link yet.) I have an Excelia and it has an stainless look and feel like the Feather DX. The Captain looks to have a different construction just based on photos.

 

[StillShaving]

Why is the Excelia so much more expensive than the Captain? (I did not open the link yet.) I have an Excelia and it has an stainless look and feel like the Feather DX. The Captain looks to have a different construction just based on photos.

Product description of the Kai Captain folding on West Coast Shaving included the following: "...blade is stainless steel with 2 titanium coatings" which makes me wonder if it is made from sintered stainless steel much like the Feather SS and Feather AS-D2. That would help explain the cost difference between the Captain and Excelia. The Kai Excelia and Feather DX do not have a coating.

 

[rs_776]

"...blade is stainless steel with 2 titanium coatings

My gut tells me that hey are talking about the blade and not the holder. However, Bullgoose has s similar description and refers specifically to the holder. I'm not sure why they would coat the holder with titanium. Here is Kai's description of the "Titan mild" blade, which is why I suspect they are referring to the blade.



Without cutting off a sample of each and having my metallurgist look them over, I have no way of knowing if there is a significant difference in the steel used on the Excelia vs. the Captain Standard. I'll bet there isn't. The Excelia certainly has a more elaborate geometric features than the standard. Coarse and more-defined jimps; notches on the spine, and a hollow grind effect are all features that are more costly to manufacture. The Captain standard is probably forged or molded, then deburred and buffed. The Excelia probably goes through the same process but also has some grinding or machining done to it as well. The handle on the Excelia uses two different polymers and may use something called a "two-shot" injection mold. These features alone could account for the cost difference, perhaps even if they are made from the same grade of stainless steel.

Also keep in mind that with the amount of steel used to make these razors, the difference in material cost from the most to least expensive grades would only be a few dollars (based on commercially available stainless steel prices)

That's my two cents

 

[kingfisher]

My gut tells me that hey are talking about the blade and not the holder. However, Bullgoose has s similar description and refers specifically to the holder. I'm not sure why they would coat the holder with titanium. Here is Kai's description of the "Titan mild" blade, which is why I suspect they are referring to the blade.

View attachment 1030828

Without cutting off a sample of each and having my metallurgist look them over, I have no way of knowing if there is a significant difference in the steel used on the Excelia vs. the Captain Standard. I'll bet there isn't. The Excelia certainly has a more elaborate geometric features than the standard. Coarse and more-defined jimps; notches on the spine, and a hollow grind effect are all features that are more costly to manufacture. The Captain standard is probably forged or molded, then deburred and buffed. The Excelia probably goes through the same process but also has some grinding or machining done to it as well. The handle on the Excelia uses two different polymers and may use something called a "two-shot" injection mold. These features alone could account for the cost difference, perhaps even if they are made from the same grade of stainless steel.

Also keep in mind that with the amount of steel used to make these razors, the difference in material cost from the most to least expensive grades would only be a few dollars (based on commercially available stainless steel prices)

That's my two cents

I agree with all of this.

I think people underestimate how much of a premium looks alone can command, or the idea of getting a "premium" product. The Excelia is probably slightly more expensive to manufacture, but that isn't making up the greater part of the difference in the price.

 

[StillShaving]

I am no expert in these matters, but i believe there is a lot more labor involved in creating a Feather DX as compared to a Feather SS. Perhaps the same is true for a Kai Excelia when compared to a Kai Captain? Assuming that both are stainless steel.

I am curious if anyone has both a Excelia and a Captain? Or does anyone have a older (5+ years?) Captain and can compare it to the current production model?

As was mentioned earlier I do wonder if there is misleading information posted in online stores about the Kai Captain.

Here is a blurb on Fendrihan website:

KAI Captain Standard Japanese Folding Razor

Lightweight and evenly balanced, the KAI Captain Standard Folding Razor gives you a close and smooth shave. FEATURES Curved resin scales Sharp and durable Comfortable and firm hold Innovative plate designed for easy blade insertion and removal Slide the plate with side indentations to...

www.fendrihan.com

Lightweight and evenly balanced, the Kai Captain Standard Folding Razor gives you a close and smooth shave. Its stainless steel blade, coated with titanium, was originally designed as a surgical tool, and undergoes a rigid development process to achieve its sharpness and durability. Its plate is innovatively designed to allow for easy blade insertion and removal. Slide the plate with side indentations to comfortably hold the blade in place. With its curved glossy resin scales, the user can firmly and comfortably hold the razor while in use. Included are two colored rings that can be placed on the scales to differentiate between models if using more than one.

Reading carefully it does not give the blade holder ("plate") construction. But does mention titanium coated stainless steel blades, even though the item being sold is not the blade.

 

[rs_776]

I am no expert in these matters, but i believe there is a lot more labor involved in creating a Feather DX as compared to a Feather SS. Perhaps the same is true for a Kai Excelia when compared to a Kai Captain? Assuming that both are stainless steel.

My short answer is yes. As I have outlined above, I will say that some of these "creature features" on the Excelia would definitely add to manufacturing time and cost. I suspect the Excelia requires some grinding or material removal after it is formed to its basic shape. The Standard will require a lot less of this, if any. The Industrial Engineer in me (which is my degree) says that the Excelia would require a higher selling price to justify the additional manufacturing steps required, when compared to the Standard. Does it justify double the cost? I don't know. If some of the additional processes done the Excelia are done by hand....probably yes.

I am curious if anyone has both a Excelia and a Captain?

Other than shops that actually sell them, it may be tough to find someone who has experience with both. I have scoured multiple forums and can't find anyone that's reviewed them side-by-side. I'm curious too.

Reading carefully it does not give the blade holder ("plate") construction. But does mention titanium coated stainless steel blades, even though the item being sold is not the blade.

It's always been tough to sift through some of the discrepencies in the descriptions that various online sellers post. I see it on other shave products, but the Kai products seem to get the worst of it. Kai doesn't really market their shave products in North America, and there are only a handful of distributors. My guess is that the online sellers get a very basic "stock" description from Kai, and whomever runs their E commerce (possibly someone with little to no familiarity with the product) tries to make it sound a little more sophisticated or attractive to buyers. The result is things that make no sense or are just plain inaccurate. Q brothers (aka smallflower) even state that they will hone the Kai Captain for free with your purchase (good luck with that!!)

 

[amaneibuki]

Do you have any questions?
I am not a barber. I have little knowledge, but it may help you.

 

[StillShaving]

Do you have any questions?
I am not a barber. I have little knowledge, but it may help you.

View attachment 1032115

Nice. You have both a folding and non-folding Excelia.

Which razor is that on top, the one with the black scales? Is the blade holder discolored/stained or is that just a reflection?

 

[amaneibuki]

The shape is very similar to DX, but the material of stainless steel and the detail design seem to be different.
DX is 55g and this is 51g. The head part is a little lighter and the balance during use is different from DX.
There is no superiority or inferiority in in the balance of each model. I think it's a matter of taste.
The black discoloration is just a stain due to the fact that it was used in the salon.

Excelia is not currently sold in Japan. Other KAI straight holders are not sold to ordinary individuals.
I don't know how popular salon blade razors are in countries other than Japan, but they are widely used in Japanese barbers. There are few people who love shave, and Excelia is very popular only with barbers. It is extremely difficult to obtain. I also looked for more than half a year.

Titanium coat is a technology "PINK" used only for some blades. A blade without titanium coating is also available. The holder is irrelevant.