Sailor nibs -14k vs 21k?

[tankerjohn]

I'm building my up my pen slush fund and daydreaming about my next pen. I'm debating between a Pelikan M200 or a Sailor. I guess it depends if I want a great piston-fill or a great nib, and today I'm kinda leaning towards nib. That got me wondering about the difference between Sailor's 14k nib on the 1911S, Pro Gear Slim, and Promenade and the 21k nib on the full size Pro Gear ant 1911L. Is the 21k nib appreciably better? Anyone have an opinion? I'm seeing the 14k nibbed pens starting around $80 and the 21k nibbed pens starting around $160 (all shipped from Japan, of course). So actually, even the $160 is not bad for what many people claim is the best nib in the world.

 

[Doc4]

So actually, even the $160 is not bad for what many people claim is the best nib in the world

Unless you have a “thing” for really thin nibs, look into the Sailor Naginata Togi nib. It will cost a bit more but ... worth it! MF is the best size of that nib for me.

 

[Doc4]

 

[tankerjohn]

Thanks for the tip @Doc4

 

[Doc4]

Thanks for the tip @Doc4

No problem.

It's been years since I bought one but ... back then, the best deals came from Japanese sellers on e-bay. Just went looking again and ... not much at all, and what's there is very pricey!

This ... Sailor Naginata Togi and Saibi Togi Announcement | Anderson Pens Blog ... is "interesting". And this: Production Resumed on Sailor’s Specialty Nibs Naginata Togi and Cross Point Series

Hmm ... looks like they may be much harder to find, and more expensive, than in the past. Good thing I got mine a long time ago.

Here's a guy who likes his: Sailor 1911 Large Fountain Pen – Naginata Togi 21k MF Nib

 

[tankerjohn]

No problem.

It's been years since I bought one but ... back then, the best deals came from Japanese sellers on e-bay. Just went looking again and ... not much at all, and what's there is very pricey!

This ... Sailor Naginata Togi and Saibi Togi Announcement | Anderson Pens Blog ... is "interesting". And this: Production Resumed on Sailor’s Specialty Nibs Naginata Togi and Cross Point Series

Hmm ... looks like they may be much harder to find, and more expensive, than in the past. Good thing I got mine a long time ago.

Here's a guy who likes his: Sailor 1911 Large Fountain Pen – Naginata Togi 21k MF Nib

That would explain why the cheapest one on eBay was like $1500. The Anderson article said they were going to resume production in 2018, but I guess that didn’t happen. The Naginata Togi nib sounds similar to the Zoom. What is the difference? Are there any nibmeisters doing that grind?

 

[Doc4]

I think there’s something lost in translation ... when Sailor says they are stopping production to catch up with demand, I think they mean that they are not taking new orders to allow ongoing production to catch up with existing order backlogs.

The other article says “production resumed” (2018?) but at higher prices. Sounds like the “good old days” are done.

I’v never tried a Zoom nib. The naginata togi is kind of like a music nib turned 90 degrees, if that makes sense ...

 

[thefenlander]

I don't have any experience with Sailor pens, but I wouldn't count the M200 out because it has a steel nib. My M200 has a pleasant "bounce" to it, although it is by no means a flex nib.

That said, the conventional wisdom is that if you are trying to decide between two pens you will end up buying both anyway, so maybe you'll be able to give us a comparison soon!

 

[trashcanmagic]

The 14k is slightly better than the 21k, IMO, unless we're talking King of Pen.

However, the pen bodies the 21k nibs are set into are MUCH better. Definitely a bigger difference than the nibs (which are all great).

All are better than an M200. IMO (again only IMO) if you are not getting a brass piston or a vintage pen, you are missing out on the fundamental Pelikan experience.

Sailor is not the best, IMO. We all have preferences. To my taste Pilot is the best coming out of Japan nib wise, and I strongly prefer Pilot to Sailor overall (though both are quite utilitarian in the realm of JP fountain pens). I don't have a ton of JP fountain pens right now but I do have the bigger 1911 and a couple of the larger Pilots (623s and 743s, mostly). Theyre all fine, reliable pens and the Pilots are best at their price point, IMO.

 

[nemo]

... if you are not getting a brass piston or a vintage pen, you are missing out on the fundamental Pelikan experience.

That's rubbish.

 

[tankerjohn]

Okay, so my Pro Gear is on the way. I found a really good price on Amazon and jumped on it (sure hope it isn't a scam). Its the full sizer with the 21K nib. Medium nib, as I need a finer line than my 3776's broad for everyday use. The Pelikan will have to wait, but I don't think they'll discontinue the marble green M200 any time soon.

 

[tankerjohn]

Update: well, as I feared, the deal was too good to be true. The listing and vendor are gone. Nothing but a whole bunch of pissed-off one-star reviews left in its wake. Man, I feel dumb. Amazon is contacting the vendor for a refund, but I'm not holding my breath. Hopefully, Amazon stands behind it and at least gives me store credit or something. So no Sailor for me, not yet anyway.

 

[bray144k]

Update: well, as I feared, the deal was too good to be true. The listing and vendor are gone. Nothing but a whole bunch of pissed-off one-star reviews left in its wake. Man, I feel dumb. Amazon is contacting the vendor for a refund, but I'm not holding my breath. Hopefully, Amazon stands behind it and at least gives me store credit or something. So no Sailor for me, not yet anyway.

Sorry to hear about this experience. I hope amazon resolved the issue. Will you still be buying a Pro Gear? I'm also trying to decide between a Pro Gear or an M200. What made the decision for you?

 

[Doc4]

Update: well, as I feared, the deal was too good to be true. The listing and vendor are gone. Nothing but a whole bunch of pissed-off one-star reviews left in its wake. Man, I feel dumb. Amazon is contacting the vendor for a refund, but I'm not holding my breath. Hopefully, Amazon stands behind it and at least gives me store credit or something. So no Sailor for me, not yet anyway.

Worth a call to your credit card company to see if they can help

 

[Jut]

I had this happen to me once, and Amazon refunded my money without much hassle.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[tankerjohn]

Sorry to hear about this experience. I hope amazon resolved the issue. Will you still be buying a Pro Gear? I'm also trying to decide between a Pro Gear or an M200. What made the decision for you?

Well I was leaning Pro Gear. But then when I saw it for such a great price, I knew had to jump on it! LOL! If it’s too good to be true, it probably is. Fortunately, Amazon never charged my card and canceled the order with minimal fuss.

I haven’t bought anything yet. I originally reasoned that, well, the Pro Gear has a great nib, but meh filling system, while the M200 has an awesome filling system, but inferior nib. And I use the nib a lot more than the filling system, so advantage Pro Gear. But then that marbled green M200 is just singing to me. But so is the black and gold Pro Gear. And just to make matters worse, the Pilot Custom 912 with the FA nib is looking pretty nice too. I suppose I will acquire all of them eventually. But which to get first...

 

[Doc4]

Fortunately, Amazon never charged my card and canceled the order with minimal fuss.

Good news!

I originally reasoned that, well, the Pro Gear has a great nib, but meh filling system, while the M200 has an awesome filling system, but inferior nib. And I use the nib a lot more than the filling system, so advantage Pro Gear.

Okay, I'm going to be that nasty enabler that you love and your wallet hates.

Pilot Custom Heritage 92. Great nib, great piston filling system ... and stunning demonstrator colours. (I like the blue best myself but you have 4 choices.) To my mind, a demonstrator is only worth having when the filling system is something more interesting than a cartridge/converter system. Anyhow ... fantastic pen all-round. (If you like demonstrators.)

For this or the Sailor ... or both ... keep an eye on e-bay. There are lots of reputable sellers shipping directly from Japan, and the costs can be quite reasonable.

 

[bray144k]

Good news!



Okay, I'm going to be that nasty enabler that you love and your wallet hates.

Pilot Custom Heritage 92. Great nib, great piston filling system ... and stunning demonstrator colours. (I like the blue best myself but you have 4 choices.) To my mind, a demonstrator is only worth having when the filling system is something more interesting than a cartridge/converter system. Anyhow ... fantastic pen all-round. (If you like demonstrators.)

For this or the Sailor ... or both ... keep an eye on e-bay. There are lots of reputable sellers shipping directly from Japan, and the costs can be quite reasonable.

Could you DM me a link for a reputable seller to watch? Idk how to tell who's reputable or not.

 

[nemo]

... while the M200 has an awesome filling system, but inferior nib.

Inferior to what? Surely not a Sailor 21K nail ... one great feature about the M200/205 is the awesome interchangeability of nibs. Some users will put a sweet golden M400 nib in for a classy writing experience. But if you've used a lot of steel Pelikan nibs like me you just may decide to pop a nice springy one in your 400 for daily pleasure.

Love my steel!

 

[tankerjohn]

Inferior to what? Surely not a Sailor 21K nail ... one great feature about the M200/205 is the awesome interchangeability of nibs. Some users will put a sweet golden M400 nib in for a classy writing experience. But if you've used a lot of steel Pelikan nibs like me you just may decide to pop a nice springy one in your 400 for daily pleasure.

Oh no! Poor choice of words on my part. Obviously, I've never used either, so I have no basis for comparison other than what I can piece together from my research. If you're contending that Pelikan steel nibs are better than Sailor 21K nibs, that's the first I've encountered that opinion. I do appreciate your perspective and will certainly take it into consideration.