His personal collection stones are astronomical. Well, for me anyway. It's all relative right? But it was the last really nice Nakayama from his other "natural sharpening stones" section. I vacilated between it and the Ozuko, but I never like to say, "I wish I woulda ...".
Show us your Japanese Natural Whetstones
- Thread starter superbleu
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Well done sir. Looking forward to your posts on results.
Thank you, fine Sir. I'll keep you posted.
Beautiful mizu Ultimatezap. I love those super clean mizu asagi stones. Yes you are right they almost look synthetic.
Indeed. Beautiful stone, fine Sir. And thank you; I feel very fortunate.
When I said earlier that So's personal collection stones were "astronomical" in price? I'm absolutely certain that it's a case of, "you get what you pay for", and they're likely some of the finest stones left in Japan. Absolutely ought to be protected in a museum somewhere, with Masamune and Muramasa swords.
If I had the means I'd buy them all and never look back.
And it took me fifteen minutes with a very very worn 1200 plate to get that new stone perfectly flat. Wow.
I used 1200 generated slurry to work the razor. About 40x each side to break it down some. Then dilute to about 50% and 20x each side, then 50% and 10x each side, then 50% and 5x each side. By then it was nearly pure water, just very very slightly milky. A little pressure at first, and then just carefully controlling the weight of the razor an the end. Straight, edge-leading, one-way strokes throughout.
Like honing on wet silk or satin. Very fine.
So is a big proponent of using DP generated slurry. Takes a wild card out of the mix. Our own Doc feels the same (he honed an old smiling razor for me (and we exchanged several emails about technique) and I realized that I have a way to go. Getting there, but yeah, his was a phenomenal comfortable edge...)
I'll give the Böker a go in the morning, but I can already tell that it should be a fine shave.
When I said earlier that So's personal collection stones were "astronomical" in price? I'm absolutely certain that it's a case of, "you get what you pay for", and they're likely some of the finest stones left in Japan. Absolutely ought to be protected in a museum somewhere, with Masamune and Muramasa swords.
If I had the means I'd buy them all and never look back.
And it took me fifteen minutes with a very very worn 1200 plate to get that new stone perfectly flat. Wow.
I used 1200 generated slurry to work the razor. About 40x each side to break it down some. Then dilute to about 50% and 20x each side, then 50% and 10x each side, then 50% and 5x each side. By then it was nearly pure water, just very very slightly milky. A little pressure at first, and then just carefully controlling the weight of the razor an the end. Straight, edge-leading, one-way strokes throughout.
Like honing on wet silk or satin. Very fine.
So is a big proponent of using DP generated slurry. Takes a wild card out of the mix. Our own Doc feels the same (he honed an old smiling razor for me (and we exchanged several emails about technique) and I realized that I have a way to go. Getting there, but yeah, his was a phenomenal comfortable edge...)
I'll give the Böker a go in the morning, but I can already tell that it should be a fine shave.
oh man I was so close to getting that stone. It looks awesome I hope you enjoy it
I'm (kinda) sorry you missed out on it, but then this conversation would be in reverse.
If you're even slightly considering it, you should go snag the Ohzuku, like right now. It's almost 500 bones less than the stone we're discussing, and So hints that it's very likely a Nakayama. If you ultimately care about that sort of thing. I almost grabbed it instead. I still may... No no no no ... No no no. Ugggh. We'll see.
And an update: very nice shave this morning with the Böker silver and the fresh edge. I could shave with that edge every day and be happy, but it's still not quite up there with Doc's Jnat edge, so I have a ways to go.
Isn't that horrible? To not get the perfect edge on the very first time on the very first use of the stone by anyone, ever?
Terrible.
It means I get to play with my pretty rocks some more!
Yaaaaayyyyyyyy!
So Yamashita is one of the most knowledgeable persons out there regarding Jnats, Jtools and Jknowledge. He introduced me through a wonderful old forum on Japanese tools to the use of a diamond nagura (diamond plate) for making a slurry on hard stones about 10 years ago for sharpening tool. When I brought and translated the idea to the shaving forums a year later I was called a heretic, liar and fool for promoting the waste of good stone to make a slurry. One person from Europe said flat out that no one in Japan would ever use a diamond plate to raise a slurry on these valuable stones. Yes, it was a new idea, to me too. I do not now where So came up with the idea but he was the first that I knew.
Alx
Alx
I can appreciate diamond nagura for the sake of science, to see what one stone alone does. But in general I think there’s magic in mixing the right slurry.
You know you are talking to one of 'THE' Jnat guys right? Thank you Alex for showing some of us the versatility of DN and it's applications.
It was a joke opinion expression post man. I’m aware who Alex and So are. I have many Jnats, Jtools, Jrazors... Just stating my opinion that the diamond nagura works well and is fairly normal in the tool world, but in my experience it’s never yielded a stones full potential on a razor. Diamond nagura is always my first test of a stone’s character. So far for me, every stone that has been good on diamond nagura has been better with the right tomo.
Just an opinion and I’m not attacking anybody or downing anyone who gets great results with a diamond nagura. I use a diamond nagura honing tools where I’m all about speed (and let’s note here that So is a tool dealer, so it’s not surprising he likes DN). I’ll use a diamond nagura in midrange like a black Tsushima on a razor. But for finishers my choice based on my experiences so far will always be to mess around with nagura until I find the right tomo, and at that point(with what I’ve honed on so far) I’ve always been well exceeding what the awasedo was producing with diamond nagura.
Just my opinion/YMMV.
Now if you got yourself a sweet awasedo and diamond plate and you have no other odd rocks laying around to rub together... by all means you should diamond nagura til your fingers bleed. Nobody NEEDs to go buy a tomo in order to hone, and plenty of people seem to get great results without them.
I couldn't agree with you more, the diamond naguara is just one way to get slurry and it does start out coarser than a good tomo slurry. It is really the slurry that is the key no matter how it was derived.
Alex
Well, yeah, I get the 'as long as it works' thing but I don't like that he lists items in a fraudulent way. First is that he says it ships from Japan, which it never does, usually China, or Russia. He also puts down "Kansai, Japan," but that's an airport.
I'm going to post something more about this soon - he also bids on his own listings to drive up the price in his auctions which are always 9 days long. The bidders identity is always the same accounts, or private listings. Even his feedback is from the same several accounts and he cuts and pastes these.
So, yeah, I get the pragmatic attitude for stones, "if it works," but personally I can't stand dishonest vendors like this guy and would love to see him gone. I also wish there was a way to block vendors on eBay so that my search results are not mucked up with his listings.
No, he said he is located in "Mozambic," which is a town, village or city in Russia. I asked him directly, "where is this stone located now?" He sent back a one word reply, "Mozambic." But he lists them as coming from Japan. I don't want to do business with someone that is trying to bull**** me like that. If he was just open and honest, he could develop a good reputation, possibly enough to overcome the concern of purchasing from places like Russia and China.
Then you are in the right place - first thing, do not let the amount of information overwhelm you or discourage you from engaging in Jnats and other natural stones. I'm a student and will be for the rest of my life. Just start by asking yourself a few simple questions, like "what is the purpose for which I am trying to obtain a stone?" Do you have a project in mind? Do you just want a new hobby? Or is this something you have always wanted to do and now you have the time/money or otherwise changed situation that you can now do it? I don't blindly buy stones. I went through a brief phase where I did. Highly inadvisable.
But, yes, take it slow and ask questions, take notes, and more importantly, consult your notes. I'm a newbie too, relatively speaking. Some guys on here have been at it for decades. They are great resources and will be happy to help you understand. Ask anything. There are so many questions that I wish I'd have asked that many people take for granted as assumed, but I simply didn't know when I started. Like storing Jnats, drying them out etc...
First of all Kansai is an area in Japan.
I have been very clear on what i think about our Russian "friend", and ofcourse the stone i bought is not from him as i wrote in my post.
I wrote in another post that even if his stones are 100% genuine i wont buy from him.
Mozambique is a country in Africa.
Come on man we live in the age of internet and can confirm just about anything online.
Whoa now, I was just asking if the consensus was these stones are mined somewhere other than Japan. Seems the consensus is he gets his hands on box loads of cast off unlabeled stones, decides what they are, chooses random stamps while drunk (3 off center and canted sideways blue Maruka stamps is widely regarded as the top seal of quality), then ships them out from somewhere in Russia. Seems plausible to me that he’s located in a “Mozambic”, Russia. I’ve seen crazier things like a manufacturing center in China named “Usa” so products can be “made in Usa” and attempt to charge a “made in the USA” price.
I just wanted to be sure we’re not thinking these are stones mined in Mozambique or someplace, because if that’s the case we’re dealing with a whole secondary layer of immorality and possibly someone exploiting environmental destruction or child labor. Maybe they’re made in Usa.
No stones used to ship out of Yaroslavl. They are real stones and he has been known to buy off yahoo.jp unstamped stones and stamp them for resale. I believe a lot of his stones are already stamped when he gets them as these stones are all over yahoo.jp and he saves a step. I think this is why there is so much variability in his stones, stamps and stone quality. He has been known to even sell 330mate stamped stones.
You know in such a confusing and overpriced market I totally understand why he would swoop in and try to make a dishonest dollar, but hurting someone else’s reputation like that just isn’t forgivable. He’s like all the hustlers in NYC selling “real but stolen” Oakley’s or Rolexes back in the day. It’s pretty disappointing eBay won’t at least do something about the shameless shill bidding and self reviewing.
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