If your inherent trust in the Gov't has remained unchanged for the last 20 years than I say that I admire your patriotism, but doubt your veracity.
Yet San Franners wonder why the rest of the country tools on them
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If your inherent trust in the Gov't has remained unchanged for the last 20 years than I say that I admire your patriotism, but doubt your veracity.
Has nothing to do with patriotism (or trust really) but rather an intellectual recognition of its function and purpose. You have created a nice strawman that I think the government always operates perfectly (or even well) which is not the case. Its a multivariate system that fails often for a variety of reasons. It is however (as even Adam Smith recognized) a necessary force for dealing with negative externalities, common resource problems, and collective action dilemmas.
I've just been pointing out that the concept the government is trying to "enslave" is a facile and silly statement.
I've just been pointing out that the concept the government is trying to "enslave" is a facile and silly statement.
I agree with the premise of your first sentence, but it is impossible to separate the theory of Gov't from the actual operation thereof. It is the operation of Gov't, probably since the Carter admin, but perhaps since Nixon (and my personal suspicion is that they go hand in hand...and the *** for tat that continues to this day), but my own experience during early Nixon and before is that of a boy too young to have the insight of adulthood, that has gone awry. We have veered far, too far, from the lofty ideals that you adhere to. If our elected officials held themselves to the standards that you espouse we would all be better off.
Alas, in an early thread I stated I was much like John Adams in opinion, so my conclusion is that people are weak and will always succumb to evils of holding power. Little has occurred in my lifetime to convince me otherwise. I think the OP validates my opinion.
There is a reason that ouch is the top poster on this site. Reading this thread while listening to Disco Inferno really raises it to another level.
That's just plain out of line. What's the Springfield ever done to you? Without Springfield you would never have been able to see the movie "The World's Fastest Indian"
Springfield tried to kill me after getting me lost. Seriously.
I had to get gas coming home from Amherst one night, and pulled off the turnpike into Springfield figuring it is a big city, I should be able to find gas. It took, like, ten minutes to find a gas station on what seemed like a major road. Then, I could not get back on the highway. There were no signs for the mass pike that I could find, and two (2) roads were blocked off by the police. Eventually I pulled into a Dunkin Doughnuts to ask how to get to the highway (which you could see from the restaurant) and the lady had to ASK THE MANAGER. When I finally got onto the turnpike, I drove for five minutes until almost being hit by a car going the wrong way on a three-lane highway (and this is a highway with a huge, grassy median between the opposing directions; to be going the wrong way seems impossible). I had to swerve to miss him (it was late at night, and I was coming around a bend so I didn't see him until almost too late). Needless to say, I hate Springfield Mass.
I had to get gas coming home from Amherst one night, and pulled off the turnpike into Springfield figuring it is a big city, I should be able to find gas. It took, like, ten minutes to find a gas station on what seemed like a major road. Then, I could not get back on the highway. There were no signs for the mass pike that I could find, and two (2) roads were blocked off by the police. Eventually I pulled into a Dunkin Doughnuts to ask how to get to the highway (which you could see from the restaurant) and the lady had to ASK THE MANAGER. When I finally got onto the turnpike, I drove for five minutes until almost being hit by a car going the wrong way on a three-lane highway (and this is a highway with a huge, grassy median between the opposing directions; to be going the wrong way seems impossible). I had to swerve to miss him (it was late at night, and I was coming around a bend so I didn't see him until almost too late). Needless to say, I hate Springfield Mass.
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I went to college in Western Mass., and man, I hate Springfield too.
These things you mentioned are services, rather than solutions to problems... Or maybe it's better to call them "problems that have been solved long ago by implementing and maintaining these services and infrastructure".
I think where people feel that the Gov't fails in solving problems are in things like the "War on Drugs" and the "War on Poverty", both of which have been abject failures by anybody's standard.
I agree that Gov't is necessary and a good thing, but I prefer them to focus the items that you listed, and keep out of most other things.
H
Hanzo
Conservative ideology seeks to maintain traditional hierarchies, sees individualism as the solution to social problems and believes only in gradual organic change. They love to point out the " failures" of government not to enhance government efficiency in solving social problems but because they don't want the problems solved. That we have 38 million Americans living below the poverty line is not really a problem to Conservatives so even governmental solutions that might relieve poverty is something they just don't believe in.
I think for many Conservatives the anti tax and goverment line is really about not wanting a welfare state. To them the big injustice is being taxed or held responsible for minorities or poor Americans. They seem to feel most aggreived by " entitlements" in other societies the right to shelter, food, work , health care. Similarly a big no no is wealth redistribution which they feel that the welfare state advances
The Latin American Right have been honest in saying their ideal society is one where they enjoy privilege, hierarchical dominance and order , I think many American Conservatives share this vision for America. Since its decidedly antidemocratic they really can't speak it aloud and I suspect they feel if good government or progressive taxation or goverment action to solve social problems is mobilized then the social and economich egalitarianism which they seem to abhor will become too much of a reality. When the mantra of " how the war on poverty utterly failed " is repeated we must ask ourselves if Conservatives were ever really interested in alleviating American poverty in the first place.
I think for many Conservatives the anti tax and goverment line is really about not wanting a welfare state. To them the big injustice is being taxed or held responsible for minorities or poor Americans. They seem to feel most aggreived by " entitlements" in other societies the right to shelter, food, work , health care. Similarly a big no no is wealth redistribution which they feel that the welfare state advances
The Latin American Right have been honest in saying their ideal society is one where they enjoy privilege, hierarchical dominance and order , I think many American Conservatives share this vision for America. Since its decidedly antidemocratic they really can't speak it aloud and I suspect they feel if good government or progressive taxation or goverment action to solve social problems is mobilized then the social and economich egalitarianism which they seem to abhor will become too much of a reality. When the mantra of " how the war on poverty utterly failed " is repeated we must ask ourselves if Conservatives were ever really interested in alleviating American poverty in the first place.
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Along with the tragic case of poor Mr. Moore.....
1. The beautiful game of basketball was not invented to be perennially defiled by that municipal-rivaling organization of disfunction that is the Golden State Warriors.
2. Sweaters needed in summer.
3. BALCO
1. The beautiful game of basketball was not invented to be perennially defiled by that municipal-rivaling organization of disfunction that is the Golden State Warriors.
2. Sweaters needed in summer.
3. BALCO
Thank you for ignorantly insulting many of B&B's members. Perhaps you should read the post that Shane linked to.
"The War on Poverty is the name for legislation first introduced by United States President Lyndon B. Johnson during his State of the Union address on January 8, 1964. This legislation was proposed by Johnson in response to a national poverty rate of around nineteen percent"
"Johnson, a Democrat"
"The US Census declared that in 2007 12.5% of all people lived in poverty."
The legacy of the "War on Poverty:
"In 2005, $620 billion was spent on more than eighty welfare programs funded by federal, state, and local governments."
"It is estimated that Social Security benefits for those in the poorest fifth of the population totaled $100 billion in 2005. Medicare provided another $115 billion, and educating the children of low-income families cost $105 billion more. (These figures do not measure total spending on these programs but only the expenditures benefiting those in the lowest fifth of the income distribution.) To these sums we may add $40 billion in uncompensated medical care and $78 billion in private charity.
Grand total: $1.058 trillion in 2005."
"If a trillion dollars were simply given to those counted as poor by the federal government (37 million in 2005), it would amount to $27,000 per person. That’s $81,000 for a family of three, higher than the median income of all American families, and far greater than the poverty threshold of $15,577."
This is the kind of "governmental solutions" that NO ONE should believe in....for obvious reasons.
What does the above show? We have spent countless trillions over the last 45 years in "the War on Poverty" to reduce the poverty level by about 1/3. That in and of itself is an abject failure, but add to that the simple conclusion that if you just handed out cash those 12.5% that they would no longer be poor makes me conclude that the Gov't' hasn't a clue.
So...Hanzo, please don't make this a "conservatives are such mean people who don't get it" thing.
As a relative newcomer to the area, the homeless problem in SF and other parts of the Bay Area seems formidable. It's different than NYC and DC, perhaps because of the better climate? On top of people who may be on the streets because they're poor and possibly mentally ill, you have a whole population of runaway youth who circulate between SF, Santa Cruz and parts unknown.
Some time ago I had ridden my bike into the city to pick up a visa from the Chinese consulate. It was around 7:30am and I took a wrong turn and ended up going down an unfamiliar cross street. It was like something out of the Day of the Dead: there were dozens of people just walking around on the sidewalk and street, like zombies, pushing carts, toting sleeping bags, arguing, drinking, singing...I had never seen anything like it.
Some time ago I had ridden my bike into the city to pick up a visa from the Chinese consulate. It was around 7:30am and I took a wrong turn and ended up going down an unfamiliar cross street. It was like something out of the Day of the Dead: there were dozens of people just walking around on the sidewalk and street, like zombies, pushing carts, toting sleeping bags, arguing, drinking, singing...I had never seen anything like it.
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Hmm, Ouch didn't seem to think so when he first replied.
A lot of people have railed on me for calling people out for acting like children in posts like this. I'm willing to bear that brunt again seeing as I know how to act on the internet, and some of you think B&B is your personal partisan echo chamber.
I'm requesting that this thread gets locked. Quit wasting everyone's time.
I'm requesting that this thread gets locked. Quit wasting everyone's time.
Thank you.
Before it gets locked, I want to get my $.02 in.
I figured it was just a matter of time before you requested that it be locked. Thanks
I figured it was just a matter of time before you requested that it be locked. Thanks
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