Of the soaps listed as options I’ve only used Stirling and B&M. Both are great soaps and I’d have trouble deciding which one has the better base. Stirling would be my choice for scents though. A couple that aren’t listed that I find to be really good are Speick stick and Cella. Between Speick and Cella I’d say Cella has the better richness but it would have to be an everyday usage soap compared to Speick
RICHEST tallow based soap?
- Thread starter RicoSuave
- Start date
MacDuffs V4 - none of the options come close 
Of all the soaps listed and overall B&M Omnibus is the richest I’ve tried. It takes a little more time for me to mix and hydrate but worth it. It’s thick, heavy/low structure and moisturizing. It is what I reach for after a previous rough shave and is just my go to. I have not tried declaration grooming. The others are all solid.
Among none tallow soaps, KLAR Classic is a good option too:
www.badgerandblade.com
What is your favorite non-tallow, non-lanolin shaving soap?
Caties Bubbles Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
www.badgerandblade.com
Grate up two sticks and press then into a container. It’s what I’ve done at the house. And I travel with the sticks
Knowing that your 10 second loading criteria results in lower scores for hard soaps versus softer artisan products how did D.R. Harris score on your other criteria? Also what scent is your puck? Surprised at the rating given all the positive reviews out there. Just acquired a puck of the Windsor scent that I'm about to use.
@RayClem needs to share his detailed rating criteria. One of his criteria is ease of loading where his standard is 10 seconds. This favors softer artisan soaps and automatically downgrades hard triple milled pucks that require more loading time if dry. Additionally scent is a personal preference so we need to know which D.R. Harris scent was rated and decide for ourselves which we prefer.
Hi RayClem, While we won't always agree on soap ratings given the differences in our personal preferences I find your assessments to be excellent. I regularly learn something new from your posts. They are thoughtful and fact based and it is appreciated that you are always willing to supply the details that enable each of us to leverage your analyses within the light of our personal preferences and YMMV.
Agree with your response to @RicoSuave . I've also found that some of the newer non-tallow bases soaps, such as Razorock What the Puck and new formula Tabac produce excellent lather and have a regular place in my rotation. If the ratios and production methods are sound it doesn't really matter whether the saponified fatty acids came from flora or fauna.
Also regarding the overall premise of this thread the richest soap is driven more by technique and personal preferences versus any specific soap formula. I've adjusted my technique to generate perfect (for me) lather from any of my soaps ranging from Williams, Arko, MWF, What the Puck, Tabac (new formula) and my custom blends.
Finally there is the fact that the richest lather is not necessarily the best lather. Many of us have found that a wetter lather is slicker and provides a better shave. Lather can be too rich. We've learned to add more water for a better shaving experience. The richest lather I've ever created is from a bar of Dove Men+Care soap (older formula that does include some tallow). Per posts from myself and others it was just too rich to shave with. However it is an excellent superlathering agent and adding a bit of it to my Van Der Williams blends helps to produce a near perfect shaving soap.
@RicoSuave while your original post in this thread appeared to focus on soliciting views on a narrow assortment of soaps that you have experience with, I hope the broad range of experiences and thoughtful comments shared by your fellow B&Bers have helped you broaden your horizons and evolve your thinking regarding what can deliver your personal ideal of an excellent shave.
Considering that Jason Rudman of Ruds shaves never released his criteria for judging soaps, there is no reason I need to do so. However, I have reported my criteria in many shaving soap reviews. For those who missed those reviews, here they are::
1. A soap should be easy to load. I am too lazy to spend a lot of time loading soap and my arthritic hands do not enjoy the experience. A soap that loads in 10 seconds or less after a 10 second bloom time will receive the maximum score. DR Harris Windsor receives a score of 6 as it either takes a lot of blooming time or nearly a minute of loading time. I use my soaps in a large rotation that contains about 80 soaps, so my soaps tend to dry out between uses. If you use the soap every day, it might not be so difficult to lather.
2. A soap should be easy to lather. I give a maximum score of 10 to a soap that produces a smooth lather free of large bubbles in less than 40 seconds of vigorous swirling in my lather bowl. DR Harris received a score of 8 which means it took about 1 minute or lathering time. I only gave Williams Mug Soap a score of 6 because it still did not achieve a smooth lather after 2 minutes of lathering.
3. A shave lather should be very slick on the skin. Nearly all the soaps I have rated score a 10 on this property. Even Yardley of London bath bar produces a very slick lather. DR Harris, Williams Mug Soap and TOBS creams only rate an 8 as they are not as slick as most of their competitors.
4. A shave lather should continue to provide slickness even after all visible lather has been removed by the blade. This residual slickness allows you to achieve a super close shave using buffing strokes without irritating the skin. This is an attribute where many artisan soaps really excel. Some are so good that I have completed an entire clean-up pass without relathering. DR Harris only rated 6 points as there is no way I can use buffing strokes without additional lather.
5. A shave lather should provide a thin layer of cushion between the blade and the skin to protect the skin from irritation. I readily admit that my skin is super sensitive and easily irritated. So this is an important criteria for me. For those with less sensitive skin, it might not be so important. I have even had some friends tell me that they like a lather with little cushion as they think they can achieve a closer shave without it. DR Harris only received a score of 6 for cushion as I do get some irritation when using the soap.
6. The only post-shave product I typically use is witch hazel. I do not use aftershaves, serums, balms, etc. I want my shaving lather to leave my face feeling soft, smooth, moisturized, and conditioned after the shave. Arko leaves my skin tight and dry, so it only gets 3 points. DR Harris does not make my face feel uncomfortable, but neither does it feel great. I rated it as a 6. I rated Williams Mug Soap as 8 in this category as the face feel was better than DR Harris. Many artisan soaps have focused on post-shave feel. Any soap that leaves my face feeling great for at least 8 hours gets 10 points. However, in the past couple of years, some artisan soaps have entered the market whose post-shave feel will linger a minimum of 16 hours, so they get 1 bonus point. Finally, there have been a few superb soaps released in the past year whose post-shave feel will last beyond 24 hours. They get 2 bonus points. However, to get the bonus points, they must score 10 points on each of the other criteria.
Although I do rate scent strength and scent preference, I do not consider those two criteria in my evaluations. Scents are so personal that I seldom recommend scents to anyone. However, I do like "perfume grade" scents; those made from high quality ingredients expertly blended and strong enough to fill my bathroom with aroma during my shave. I like the aroma of DR Harris Windsor, but it does not rank among my favorites.
I do feel confident that most people will like the performance of my top soaps. I currently have 29 soap formulations (about 75 soaps) in my den that rate 60 or higher. These are my elite soaps. Of these 9 formulations rate 61 points and 7 rate 62 points. The following soap formulations achieve a performance rating of 62. These are the soaps I most enjoy using if I find a scent to my liking.
Ariana and Evans Kaizen 2e
Barrister and Mann Omnibus
Ethos Grooming Essentials F Base
Grooming Dept Kairos (latest version)
Grooming Dept Kairos SE
Grooming Dept Mallard
Nobel Otter (latest formulation only).
If you do not value the same things as I do, I have no issue with your wanting to use something else.
Some people like using Arko, but my skin won't tolerate it.
Some people have skin toughened by sun and wind and do not care about cushion and protection.
Some people use post-shave balms and serums and do not care whether the soap provides those benefits.
There are hundreds of soaps available. I have tried to procure and evaluate some of the very best according to my criteria. That process has taken me several years, a hundred hours or more of shaving and several thousand dollars in purchases. I share the results of my research so those who appreciate the same things I do might benefit from my effort. If you do not care about the same things I care about, then please ignore my recommendations.
Thank you. This is an excellent structured approach to assessing our shave soaps that each of us can adapt per our personal preferences and sensitivities.
Thanks to all of you for contributing your expertise, based both on theory and experience. I voted for Stirling because that's the one I'm currently using, but not having tried ALL of them (I should live so long,) I'll have to suspend judgment for the time being. I think my experience is aided somewhat by two things: first, I shave in the shower, and second, I have soft water. The soft water eliminates much of the natural resistance to building a good lather, and of course shaving in the shower gives me a very comfortable and steamy environment. Not recommended for straight razors--even an expert might drop the razor, with serious consequences. However, to determine the "best" soap, you'd need a controlled experiment, rather than the anecdotal information we've been given. Would it be the absolute percentage of a particular fat, can you factor out technique, water quality, temperature, relative humidity, etc? Here's a good piece of anecdotal information. It happened once that I was in a steam room, and after an appropriate period, stepped over to the mirror to enjoy a shave. I built up a great lather, picked up my Merkur, and commenced my first stroke. I encountered no resistance at all, and thought I had neglected to put a blade in. I checked the razor, but sure enough, there was a blade there. What had happened was that in that hot and humid environment, my beard had absorbed so much moisture, and become so soft, that all resistance to shaving was gone. I continued with the best shave of my life. If you ever have the opportunity to try a steam room, I'd recommend shaving there as well. You won't be disappointed.
Following my previous post, I purchased a B&M (Seville, if the scent makes a difference,) and had an absolutely marvelous shave. The lather worked up quickly, and was rich and felt great on my neck. (I have a beard, so my neck is where the action is.). The scent was delightful, and the shave even more so. When I finished, I wanted to do it again. So sad to discover it was all over. I can only underscore what others have said about this brand—it’s a great soap, and delivers a first-rate shave. Highly recommended
That's an interesting claim.
- Thread starter
- #75
Best of my knowledge, no, but I believe they offer a balm in the same line.
That kind of jumped out at me as well, so I went to their website. They render the tallow used in their soaps in-house, which makes much more sense.
I like Mitchell's Wool Fat, which is a rich, tallow based soap with lanolin added. I've tried some of those listed, but the MWF is better for me. I like La Toja as a second choice.
I'd like to know how you produce a good lather in 40 seconds. I always struggle to produce a good lather (MdC is a notable exception). Don't know why.
