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Interesting!This isn't surprising. Highly refined edges don't cut tomatoes well.
Interesting!This isn't surprising. Highly refined edges don't cut tomatoes well.
I will try to get some posted but it did "pass" the sharpie test in one stroke and when I looked at it under magnification, the scratch pattern was uniform across the whole blade.For better advice post some photos of the razor, as clear as possible, both sides and close up of the edge.
I did see swarf when I put the tape on, albeit less swarf than when the tape was off.You need to generate some (black) swarf to set a bevel. If you put one layer of tape on the spine, do you see any swarf?
My initial problem was applying most of the pressure to the spine, not the edge. Using tape, helped me troubleshoot this problem - if you see swarf with tape, it's coming from the edge. The light bulb clicked when I watched this video by JeffT (whose Badger & Blade name I forget) talking about using torque to apply pressure to the edge:
Watch Alfredo (@Doc226) set the bevel in this video:
Some off this can also be caused by a burr that is leaning to one side. You should be able to see this just by reflecting the bevel under light source. Direct sunlight is really effective.I tried a few. The razor did not cut a cherry tomato, it did not pass any HHT test from either root-in or tip-in, it did not get "grabby" on my thumb pad when I placed my thumb lightly on the edge and them moved it off the edge perpendicularly (i.e. to the right or left). It sometimes caught on very low tree topping on my arm hair but that was random and inconsistent. Those are the only tests I am aware of.
Go for the naniwa 12k rather than the shapton. It’s cheaper and people have reported that the shapton 12k has made micro chips in their razors… just something to watch out for.I have the 12,000 Shapton Pro, which I purchased for the final polishing of wood plane blades. I don't know what benefit a higher grit stone would give you over a strop. Because the Shapton does not have a great deal of feedback, it took me a while to get a feel for it, but I do like it. My guess would be that you have everything you need, but I mainly use the stones for knife sharpening and I am trying to learn effective sharpening techniques for planes.
My thoughts are exactly this! Thank you!A set bevel from a 1.5k shapton will shave arm/leg hair easily. It will dig into your fingernail and not let go. Until the razor will shave from the 1.5k shapton, you aren't there. Hopefully you are close though. In my experience, when things don't work out like I think they should it is because of compounding errors. Pressure problem x torque problem x stone not flat x stroke problem = no bevel.
Got it! Thanks for the tip regarding shoulderless razor - I would have never guessed that would have done anything. I was using pressure and I'm going to try to lighten things up a bit.So, the razor appears to have an even grind and is not warped. It should be an easy razor to hone.
I was only able to enlarge one photo that would focus on the middle of the bevel. That part of the bevel did not appear to have a uniform stria pattern and the edge looked fuzzy.
That style of shoulderless, thin grind is susceptible to easily flexing the blade when honing with pressure. This will hone the razor on the back of the bevel and will lift the edge off the stone or at least prevent the edge from making full contact with the stone.
That would explain the fuzzy edge and lack of sharpness.
Look straight down on the edge with magnification. You likely will see shiny reflections, sparkles like in Photo 1 below, where the bevels are not meeting fully. If you see a solid shiny line, the bevels are not meeting at all.
Put a layer of electrical tape on the spine, ink the bevels with colored sharpie, (Red, Blue, and Green are easy to see without magnification), now do a series of 10 X strokes using a minimum of pressure. The tape will increase the angle a bit making the razor easier to get the bevels to meet and will protect the spine from excessive wear.
Keep using tape until you master honing, then decide if you want to continue to use tape. There is no downside to using tape, especially when learning to hone.
After 10 laps look straight down on the edge and see if the bevels have improved and if the stria pattern on the bevels are more uniform. Re ink the bevels and do another 10 laps until the bevels are meeting fully and there are no shiny reflections like in photo 2.
You want X strokes with minimal pressure. You are probably pretty close, 40-50 light X laps should get them to meeting fully.
View attachment 1730400
Bevel almost fully set, note shiny reflections
View attachment 1730401
Bevel fully set, no shiny reflections. The edge looks grey.
If this portion of the edge is representative for the full length of the bevel i would just move up in the progression. Some steels don't give you a really refined 1k edge.I am not sure what is harder - honing or using magnification. I feel like a need a jig or 3 hands to do this. This is the best I could do. They are not perfect. Looking down at the apex was near impossible for me, I could not get it to focus and stay still long enough for me to click a picture.View attachment 1730443View attachment 1730446View attachment 1730444View attachment 1730445
Did you try the Face Hair Test?another failed attempt this evening. I even tried a razor with a rear stabilizer. Same result - bevel goes all he way to the end. Passes sharpie test but none of the sharpness test. Tomorrow is a new day.
I did not but now that you mention it, what you are saying makes more sense. I guess I thought there was "objective non-relative" criteria for this but it sounds less absolute. Thank you.Did you try the Face Hair Test?
Not being facetious here - try as I might I am unable to shave armhair with blades that give a smooth and comfortable two pass shave. Tests are personal enough that I see them as useful only once you can reliably correlate a test, as performed by you, to good outcomes, as achieved by you. They aren't diagnostic of good outcomes in any absolute sense.
I'm amazed at the differences in experiences on what should or should not be possible regarding a 1.5k edge.“I did not but now that you mention it, what you are saying makes more sense. I guess I thought there was "objective non-relative" criteria for this but it sounds less absolute.”
“When I look down at the edge with direct light with high power LED flashlight from multiple directions, I see no burr on either razor.”
“alright! I will give it a go on finer stones this evening. One weird thing that did happen - when I tried to bevel set the second razor (with rear stabilizer), I was able to get it to pass an HHT, but in only one direction. Then I put it back on the 1.5k to keep going, and when I went to test again, and it failed in both directions.”
Hair test are totally subjective. Look at a 1k edge with magnification, it is microscopically serrated, of course it will not consistently cut hair.
Looking straight down on an edge you are not looking for a burr, you are looking to see if the bevels are meeting. Any shiny reflections are where the bevels are not meeting or a chip. If you see a long shiny line, the bevels are not meeting at all.
“when I tried to bevel set the second razor (with rear stabilizer), I was able to get it to pass an HHT, but in only one direction.”
What do you mean in one direction?
If you mean it will cut on one side and not the other, you have rolled or bent the edge in one direction. Totally normal the last side to touch the stone will bend the edge slightly in the opposite direction.
Strop the razor on leather to straighten the edge and Surprise, surprise an edge that would not cut hair… will cut hair!
It is why I strop between stones. Does it matter, don't know, doe it hurt anything? No.
I get good shaving edges.