Why we fight

[ouch]

Five years ago I had the opportunity to stand upon a steaming pile of steel that was once the World Trade Center (still can't get the stench out of my mind). Today we hear of the arrest of likeminded nutcases who wanted to get their half gross of virgins by blowing up some passenger planes. All they managed to do is wreak havoc at the airports.

I don't care what your political bent is. All I know is that when I can't get on a plane because I have a bottle of DaVinci water on me, it's time to unleash nuclear hell on these pricks.

 

[yasuo200365]

How do you identify these pricks so you can nuke them?

Regards
John

 

[ouch]

Big surprise seeing your name pop up here.

 

[yasuo200365]

Starting Armageddon over a bottle of water ..., it came as no surprise

 

[BGog]

What was the problem with the davinci water? Did they say?

 

[MJB]

I'm gonna be frank--

Ouch, this comment was beneath you. While you didn't say it directly, the implication is clearly that the pricks you are referring to are Arabs. They are people, not pricks. And killing is not what civilized people (especially those fond of fine shaving) do. Unleashing nuclear weapons and destroying a network of civilizations is a grotesque comment, even if meant as a joke. Your comment is racist and again not worthy of who I believe you to be.

Comments like this are counter-productive and won't achieve anything that in the net sum will be positive (either the action or the words).

I will admit, the emotion of anger is strong. I knew people killed by 9/11 and many more who survived but were badly effected by those horrible events. I can't imagine what you felt standing on 'Ground Zero" and you have my empathy there. Still, don't lower yourself to the levels of thise who have committed these atrocities. Emotions can't always be controlled but they should be muted by reason and with understanding from where negative emotions arise they can fade.

I'm not saying we shouldn't abandon the fight but we must not compromise our freedoms or the reasonable freedoms of others. To compromise our fundamental respect for freedom and our value of life, is to so wholly abandon who we are that it amount to nothing less than the victory of the terrorist. Franky, I'd rather live free and die the victim of a terrorist than compromise my freedoms and deny the life of so many innocents, than live feeling safe because my human freedoms have been impaired or becuase we have turned the Middle East into one shiney piece of glass with nuclear war.

I hope not to have offended but we all must have little tolerance for direct or indirect racism; I hope this doesn't end any hope of our continuing our online interaction in a more civilized direction.

MJB

 

[Logan]

I'm gonna be frank--

Ouch, this comment was beneath you. While you didn't say it directly, the implication is clearly that the pricks you are referring to are Arabs. They are people, not pricks. And killing is not what civilized people (especially those fond of fine shaving) do. Unleashing nuclear weapons and destroying a network of civilizations is a grotesque comment, even if meant as a joke. Your comment is racist and again not worthy of who I believe you to be.

Comments like this are counter-productive and won't achieve anything that in the net sum will be positive (either the action or the words).

I will admit, the emotion of anger is strong. I knew people killed by 9/11 and many more who survived but were badly effected by those horrible events. I can't imagine what you felt standing on 'Ground Zero" and you have my empathy there. Still, don't lower yourself to the levels of thise who have committed these atrocities. Emotions can't always be controlled but they should be muted by reason and with understanding from where negative emotions arise they can fade.

I'm not saying we shouldn't abandon the fight but we must not compromise our freedoms or the reasonable freedoms of others. To compromise our fundamental respect for freedom and our value of life, is to so wholly abandon who we are that it amount to nothing less than the victory of the terrorist. Franky, I'd rather live free and die the victim of a terrorist than compromise my freedoms and deny the life of so many innocents, than live feeling safe because my human freedoms have been impaired or becuase we have turned the Middle East into one shiney piece of glass with nuclear war.

I hope not to have offended but we all must have little tolerance for direct or indirect racism; I hope this doesn't end any hope of our continuing our online interaction in a more civilized direction.

MJB

You would rather have your head hacked off by a terrorist than compromise your freedoms? Man. I'd let the TSA give me a rectal exam if they thought a crazy jihadi was hiding in there.

 

[MJB]

I'm not referring to a simple TSA search. I am more referring to profiling. Phone tapping and the like. That being said, these last two posts are as radical as I get. I don't march or carry on. I am the last person that Homeland Security would spy upon and frankly, they won't find anything or interest with me. However, I would not like to be labelled because in my bag was a copy of the Voyage of the Beagle (Darwin --> Social Darwinism --> Marxist --> Commie --> Terrorist).

To me carrying a bottle of water onto an airplane is not really a fundamental freedom. I am always free not to walk onto an airplane if I don't want to follow the rules; by the way, I take off on Saturday.

MJB

 

[BGog]

I am not for war or nuking or blaming anything on a whole group of people but I'd like to make a small point.

So many people defend the Muslim religion saying that it is a peaceful religion. This may be true, however there is something there that causes SOME people to act out in destructive ways in the name of their religion.

While I'm sure it happens, please try to think of the last time you heard of a Hindu, Budhist, Christian, Athiest, Confucionist, or Taoist strapping on a some explosives and blowing up civilians in the name of their religion. (the key here is 'in the name of their religion').

Again, it is not fair to blame all Muslims for the actions of a few. However I would say it is fair to call into question the aspects of that religion that cause people to go over the edge.

BTW I'd say the same thing if it were christians doing it.

 

[jduffy]

Muslims don't have a monopoly on idiots. All sects have them. Your view is far too narrow, and perhaps even racist.

 

[Scotto]

I think it is a bit unfair to Ouch to accuse him of racism based on his note. By pricks he may well have meant the Islamo-fascist scumbags who do these things, not Arabs in general.

That being said, I have to get on a plane for a business trip Monday, and I am mighty annoyed.

 

[tjkirch]

Personally, I didn't see an implication of Arab pricks in ouch's post. There are far too many pricks in the world to discriminate against non-Arab ones

Questioning our Da Vinci Water is one step too far!

 

[Tye]

Not every Moslem is a terrorist, but for the past 20 years with the exception of Oklahoma City every terrorist attack against the USA or one of our embassies or ships or whatever has been by a Moslem or Moslem terrorist organization/group. For a religion the preaches 'peace' and acceptance like Islam does, all it has taken is a few extremists to label the whole religion as intolerant and bent on the extermination of anyone who isn't a follower of their brand of Islam to give the entire Moslem world a bad name.

-Tye

 

[mrob]

I also thought that Ouch was referring to the terrorists who were stopped from blowing up the planes, and not all people of the same race or ethnicity. In which case he is within his rights to call them "pricks," and a lot more.

 

[ouch]

I'm gonna be frank--

Ouch, this comment was beneath you.

It certainly was. It was intended to be. Not all jokes are funny, and certainly not all are appreciated. The subject title should have been a giveaway. I consider myself to be very apolitical, as are most people, and if my attempt to address at what point a person starts to care about such news was a bit heavyhanded, I'm sorry. In another forum, my analogy might have been having my flashlight confiscated at the gate. Here, we shave, and carry things such as "liquids and lotions", which is currently at the center of the controversy.

If my comments offended someone whose opinion I respect, I apologize.

I do, however, feel compelled to address some of your points.

While you didn't say it directly, the implication is clearly that the pricks you are referring to are Arabs. They are people, not pricks.

I did not say they were Arabs. You said they were Arabs. I said they were pricks, a contention I maintain. Their "prickdom" supercedes their race, religion, or ethnicity.
If you want to know what I think, I'll tell you. I think they are an abomination to a once proud religion. While Europe was in its dark ages, the Arabic world was the torchbearer for scientific thought. These fanatics are doing to the Arab world what Hitler did to the incredible scientific community that was early 20th century Germany. I don't consider these fiends to be Arabs, because I don't consider them to be people. When you decide to kill innocent people, irrespective of cause, you give up your right to be called a person, at least in my book, because you no longer meet the minimum criteria. If you don't think that someone who would consider your child to be a legitimate target in their "war" is a *****, then we have different definitions that may be permanently irreconcilable.

Your comment is racist and again not worthy of who I believe you to be.

We live in an age of moral equivalence, where calling someone a name is deemed to be an equal offence to killing someone. Again, I disagree, and will submit to you that it is, in fact, these maniacs who are the racists. I can't think of a better description of a racist than someone who wants to kill you because you don't adhere to their particular form of dogma.

Franky, I'd rather live free and die the victim of a terrorist than compromise my freedoms and deny the life of so many innocents, than live feeling safe because my human freedoms have been impaired or becuase we have turned the Middle East into one shiney piece of glass with nuclear war.

The death of one as high minded as yourself at the hands of a terrorist would be a crime against humanity. I wish I had the capacity to share such lofty aspirations with you, but I can't. If you mean what you say, I couldn't respect you more. And if you want to sacrifice your first born on the altar of your principles, good luck. But I'm voting the other way. The earmark of fanaticism is not an inibility to negociate, but an unwillingness to do so. There are some people who simply can't be reasoned with, and it is up to the good folks of the planet, particularly the billion fine Muslims, to deal with them.
How to accomplish this is the great question of our age.

I hope not to have offended but we all must have little tolerance for direct or indirect racism; I hope this doesn't end any hope of our continuing our online interaction in a more civilized direction.

MJB

All very true. Just remember that this manner of thought is a luxury we enjoy only if we get to live to see it through. There are those who are conspiring against this, and these are the folks to whom you should direct your ire. This post was supposed to get yasuo in a huff, not you.

 

[MJB]

Well let's clear up a few points.

Terrorists are pricks would agree there.

To use a nuclear weapon would be to destroy huge swaths of people--so you can't take out a few bad apples there--you can only destroy a civilization. So if you are going to nuke them all, presumably it means nuking the middle east at this point. Then again, the latest terrorist seem to be British although of Pakistani descent per the news reports--do we nuke Pakistan or England? Then again the 9/11 plotters were mostly Saudis--should we nuke there? Let's be real the obvious reference when you talk about nuking the 9/11 terrorists or the recent plotters is against Arabs and Muslims.

I was careful not to call Ouch a racist, his comments however certainly suggest an element of insensitivity. And again if your going to nuke those responsibile for 9/11 and the recent threat that implies the Arab/Muslim world.

Let me also reply to BGog: Agreed that Muslims seem to be making the headlines as terrorists lately. However, Hindus have in India killed lots (thousands) of innocent Muslims. Some may claim that Israel is being terrorists in dealing with the Lebanon situation (I can see both sides of this). Christain Identity movements in American include the Ku Klux Klan and all the harm they have done--it is at its very roots a Christian abomination. The real evil here is any fundamentalism. Fundamentalism implies a certain level of "I'm right and you're wrong". Fundamentalism allows justification of violence and allows a few people with dubious intentions to control the actions of far too many.

For me the question is from what does this fundamenatalism arise and how do we stop it? Also how do we prevent ourselves to falling to the same lows as our enemy as it were?

This is obviously an immensely important topic but also potentially testy. I look forward to continuing to engage this with respect.

MJB

p.s. I typed this at the same time as Ouch so had not seen his response that appears above.

 

[Mama Bear]

I think it is easy to forget that some of these pricks are Americans...!

Let's talk about Timothy McVea... or the idiot with a BB gun on Cline ave in Indiana.... quite frankly I am starting to feel there are pricks everywhere, but folks tend to overlook that some of the worst of them are right here at home... and some of them in our own military.

American's are not excempt from prickdom... what I don't understand is that it has to take any terrorist an aweful lot of unhappiness and misery to do what they do... umm... that is it for political statements from me tho....

 

[Scorpio]

Well stated Ouch I agree Since I fought those pricks back in the first one I have a somewhat one sided point of view. As far as I am concern the world would a better place if we did not have to worry about these "pricks". Their purpose is to kill those who do not think like they do, that is us the "infidels", they train for years just for that purpose and provocation is not a pre-requesite for them. Remember the TOWERS!!!!!

That is all I am going to say about the subject.

 

[ouch]

Well let's clear up a few points.

Terrorists are pricks would agree there.

That's rather strange. Why, then, did you choose to write:

"While you didn't say it directly, the implication is clearly that the pricks you are referring to are Arabs. They are people, not pricks."

Perhaps you thought that the pricks to whom I referred were something other than terrorists. Now, it doesn't seem that you disagree on this point at all, at least not enough to warrant your initial reproach.

To use a nuclear weapon would be to destroy huge swaths of people--so you can't take out a few bad apples there--you can only destroy a civilization.

One of the saddest things about civilization is how the masses must pay in blood for the sins of their leaders. Think of the horrors of Dresden, and the untold lives that were lost in that awful conflict. But don't forget that there was a higher good to be acheived- not only to free Europe, but to save it.

I was careful not to call Ouch a racist, his comments however certainly suggest an element of insensitivity.

Let's see there-

Your comment is racist

I hate to consider what you would have said if you weren't careful.

 

[BGog]

I Agree: ALL TERRORISTS=Pricks, Everyone Else=Non-*****, Bill O'Reilly=*****

Jim,
Sorry if I offended. But I disagree that I was being racist since I was ONLY calling into question parts of a religion and not a race.

Others have made fine points that Muslims don't have a monopoly on terrorism and I did not mean to imply that all terrorists are mulsim or that all muslims are terrorists.

My point was that they very explicitly perform the acts in the name of the religion so why are we afraid to talk about the religion. I have the same questions about the Christianity. I question what aspects of it at the time caused the crusades.

It is important to question the causes for such acts. It just so happens it's religious these days. If people who watched "American Idol" started killing people, I'd ask what is it about the show that leads people to kill.

Anyway, I'm going to go read about some shaving now Didn't mean to offend.