Which trashes your pipes and sink more, tallow or vegan?

[Steve_in_CT]

I have softened water and do not have any issues with soap scum, but I do have an issue with biofilm on the sink stopper. I have always assumed that it's related to shaving, since my wife's sink does not have much of an issue with it. Once every week or so I need to thoroughly scrub the stopper (mine has a little basket in the drain to catch anything that might otherwise literally go down the drain) and the drain pipe with a brush and a cleaner. I usually use toilet bowl cleaner for that job and an old toothbrush taped to a chopstick. It doesn't seem to make any difference whether I use tallow or vegan soaps.

 

[Raymondmillbrae]

The residue on your sink and in your pipes is calcium and magnesium salts of various fatty acids. If your water his hard, it contains high levels of calcium, magnesium, iron and manganese ions that will react with the soluble sodium and potassium fatty acid salts in your soap to form insoluble fatty acid salts that will deposit on your sink and drains. It does not matter if the fatty acids are derived from animal sources (beef, lamb, or bison tallow, duck fat, or lard, etc.) or from vegetable sources (various fruit, vegetable and nut oils and butters).

The only way to avoid the issue completely is to use soft water. Distilled water and water purified by reverse osmosis and deionized water have a very low ion concentration. Water softened by a resin bed water softener still has ions, but some of the calcium and magnesium ions have been replaced with sodium ions. Another way of making water "soft" is to use a chelating agent such as citric acid or EDTA. Although these chelating agents do not remove calcium and magensium ions, they form multiple bonds with bivalent ions lied calcium and magnesium such that they are not available to react with the fatty acid salts. There are a number of soaps that have chelating agents added to their formulas so that they will be easier to lather in hard water. Such soaps will have a lesser tendency to coat your sinks and pipes.

You have definitely described what causes the problem.

You also described how to correct the problem by using the correct water, or treating the water.

But any chemical ideas (or home-made ideas) to clean/dissolve the sink and pipes of the “fatty acid salts”?

I tried a simple solution today.

Half general-purpose vinegar (4oz), and half Dawn dishwashing soap (4oz) in a spray bottle.

I sprayed my entire shower stall down, and poured the leftover down my shaving sink.

I left it there for about 20 minutes, then rinsed everything with hot water.

Seems to have worked fine.

No scrubbing was needed. (See attached photos).

But it sounded like you knew your stuff, so I’m interested in your, specific, response.

 

[bluesman 7]

But it sounded like you knew your stuff, so I’m interested in your, specific, response.

RayClem knows his chemistry.

 

[RayClem]

You have definitely described what causes the problem.

You also described how to correct the problem by using the correct water, or treating the water.

But any chemical ideas (or home-made ideas) to clean/dissolve the sink and pipes of the “fatty acid salts”?

I tried a simple solution today.

Half general-purpose vinegar (4oz), and half Dawn dishwashing soap (4oz) in a spray bottle.

I sprayed my entire shower stall down, and poured the leftover down my shaving sink.

I left it there for about 20 minutes, then rinsed everything with hot water.

Seems to have worked fine.

No scrubbing was needed. (See attached photos).


But it sounded like you knew your stuff, so I’m interested in your, specific, response.

You always have to be careful when mixing cleaning chemicals as some combinations can produce toxic chemicals. You need to be especially careful with cleaning agents containing chlorine bleach (sodium hypochlorite).


However, in your case, you mixed a weak organic acid- vinegar with a detergent that contains surfactants and enzymes. Vinegar alone would have worked, but it is so thin that it would have run off the vertical surfaces of your shower. By mixing it 50:50 with Dawn, you end up with a thick mixture that clings to the surfaces and stays their long enough to be effective. The Dawn also helps break down the organic components of your shower and sink film. It is also safer to use that some of the commercial alternatives.

There are a number DIY Internet sites that highly recommend the cleaning mixture you used. Other detergents like Palmolive can be used as an alternative to Dawn.

 

[Raymondmillbrae]

...in your case, you mixed a weak organic acid- vinegar with a detergent that contains surfactants and enzymes. Vinegar alone would have worked, but it is so thin that it would have run off the vertical surfaces of your shower. By mixing it 50:50 with Dawn, you end up with a thick mixture that clings to the surfaces and stays their long enough to be effective. The Dawn also helps break down the organic components of your shower and sink film. It is also safer to use that some of the commercial alternative

Cool, so I was on the right track.

Ingredients were readily available, cheap, and effective.

Thanks.

 

[GR5233]

You always have to be careful when mixing cleaning chemicals as some combinations can produce toxic chemicals. You need to be especially careful with cleaning agents containing chlorine bleach (sodium hypochlorite).

There was a restaurant in my hometown that had to be temporarily closed because one of the employees mixed ammonia and chlorine bleach. The fumes were so bad that they had to call in a hazmat team to deal with it

 

[plumberroy]

Just an FYI for those that think hot water (boiling water) only will work.

I...don’t...think...so.

Not if it is totally clogged a sink drain that is open will stay open if you run hot water for a minute or two then after using soaps weather tallow or vegan soap/creams are oil emulsified with lye or similar chemicals getting the pipes hot buy running hot water allows the soap to pass to the bigger pipes where a little soap isn't a problem I run the hot water for 15 minutes every week in my kitchen it is easier to keep pipes open to begin with than unclogging later
P S. See my user name

 

[Whilliam]

Hair.

 

[plumberroy]

They installed low flow water saver faucets in one of the main public restrooms where I work during a remodel. Again the advice of our plumbing department. For a year we were unclogging the hand sinks weekly . We convinced management to allow us to put standard faucets in. We have had only one clogged sink in those restrooms in 4 years. Keeping a lot of hot water down sink pipes that are running will keep them running.
By the way there are no drain cleaners that a home owner can buy that are effective. Anything that works is either caustic soda or sulfuric acid and with eat you if you don't know what you are doing and get them on your skin