What to do with a couple hours in the shop before work.

[fast14riot]

Well since my original distraction kamisori is close to heat treat, I figured I would grind out another one because I like doing heat treat in batches. This one went MUCH quicker using all the mistakes I learned from on the first one I ground this out.

This is only rough ground to 50# right now, still some blending to do is areas, but its pretty darn close.

One of these two is going to be put up for trade with Paco for a kamisori of his creation. I will keep this thread for the new kamisori and continue the other one as well. Paco will jump in either thread whenever he is ready to start his end of the trade.

Comments and critiques are encouraged.


-Xander

 

[Khay]

From what I've seen on several kamisori the handle is a little more angled upwards - at least for me, I prefer it that way (my experience with a Feather and an Henkotsu) but I guess in the end it's a matter of personal preference.

I know I'm going to enjoy reading more on this thread - looking forward to see the finished kamisori Xander !

 

[fast14riot]

Yeah I am going to give a couple of whacks to the handle when I heat treat. Doing stock removal I prefer to use smaller stock and I had 1" stock on hand.


-Xander

 

[kirk 988]

thats a nice WIP
one day you should make a western straight like a Microtome hint hint

im going to follow this thread the last one turned out great

 

[fast14riot]

Well today I had set aside to heat treat this kamisori. I tweaked the grind and geometry a little bit and kept playin with it, but said enough is enough. If I didn't do it today I was just going to keep putting it off.

PICS!

Here is the final shape before heat treat, rough ground to 150#.

My little two brick forge. Great set up for the hobbyist.

After letting the forge warm up I put the razor in and watch the edge to keep from overheating it. The beauty of 1084 is that it is the eutectoid steel, get it non magnetic plus a litte bit more and quench. No soak times, no temperature ramps.

I also did a couple runs to forging temps so I could bend the handle up a litte bit. I ground a small hump back into it which after bending flows real nice.

You can see the humpback from the first pic is now nicely blended in to the curve of the handle, this is fresh from quench in 135* canola oil.

I got a slight bit of warp in the blade, fortunately it wasn't just the edge so that is easy to take care of.

To get rid of the warp I clamp it to something flat and temper it. It will come out during the temper.

That's all for now, its finishing up the second temper cycle now, then I have to go pick up my boy from day care. So the rest of my shop time for the day is shot.

I will update as I get more done!


-Xander

 

[Doc226]

Great pics. Love the forge on top of the BBQ.

 

[joshua1970]

Awesome!!!

 

[fast14riot]

Thanx guys! The little hibachi is lft over from the wife and i's apartment days, now its a great beach BBQ! Plus no big deal with the forge heating up on it. It gets quite hot on the outside.

Its out of temper now and the warp came out beatifully! I got one little tweak in the very last bit of the heel, but I can geind it out or loose just a few milimeters in blade length. You can see it here, but the rest of the edge is nice and straight...

-Xander

 

[fast14riot]

Ok, so I convinced the wife to let me sneak out to the shop for a bit more this afternoon. I got some post HT grinding done, still have some more to go.

Preliminary grind...

Edge thickness after preliminary grinding...

I put it to a stone to check my grinding and how straight it is. Looks like the center was a bit high on the spine and my edge is twisted just a bit.

The other side is looking pretty good right now, it will need a touch of grinding to even it out but looks good for now.

Hopefully I can get back to grinding tonight after the boy goes to bed. With the edge getting this thin I litterally can only grind for 2 seconds before I have to dunk it in ice water. Maybe if I utilize my shop time efficiently I can shave with it tomorrow morning!


-Xander

 

[Doc226]

Very nice, love seeing how you make the progress.

 

[Kentos]

I like! None of my Kamisori have totally even bevels, so yours looks fine to me. I would actually say the slight unevenness is a testament to a hand ground razor .

 

[jeness]

Very nice kami, I like the shape a lot. Those bevels are totally ok, mine aren't totally straight either, and it poses no real problem while honing, so it is really only cosmetic. A bit of grinding will even out things nicely.

 

[tomjr]

how did u make the forge? that is interesting 2 me. tom

 

[fast14riot]

Thanx guys! Also, thanx for relieving me about the bevels. I will still do some more grinding, the edge needs to be thinned out some still, maybe a couple of thou more.

how did u make the forge? that is interesting 2 me. tom

Its a pretty basic two brick forge design. Uses two soft fire brick, cut in half and stacked. A hole is drilled through three of them and only half way through the 4th piece. The third one has a small hole in the side for the torch. I use all thread through the corners to keep it together, and wrapped in 1/4" wire cloth. Line the interior with fireplace cement to give it some resilience. Soft fire brick is like chalk, you can carve it with a spoon, or your fingernail. It will crack as it heats up the air pockets inside the bricks, so that's why you wrap it in wire. Some people make frames from angle iron to help it last a little longer, but they last a good while anyways.

Do a search for two brick forge, coffee can forge, weed burner forge, atlas mini forge for different ideas. You can use a torch like me or plumb a venturi burner from a big propane tank. Search for venturi forge burner, z-burner, zoeller forge burner


-Xander

 

[Slash McCoy]

Source for your fire brick? I have some O-1 and some other bar stock of various alloys and also a few old files to play with. I got them to make razors with and by golly razors will be made. Some day. Having a forge ready to HT my blades reduces my list of excuses by one. Also where are you getting your refractory cement?

 

[fast14riot]

I got my fire brick from a fellow knife maker who had a couple thousand of them. I think he has a few hundred left now, he charged $20 shipped for 4 bricks. Also many people look up pottery supply places. My refractory cement came from Ace hardware, a 2 lb tub for just a few dollars. I think I used maybe 2 ounces to line the forge. It is Rutland brand.

I think I have maybe $50 in this forge and most of that is in the torch head.

Build a forge, make no excuses.


-Xander

 

[Slash McCoy]

Another question, Xander. How thin can you grind before heat treating? Assuming something like a 6/8 full hollow shoulder less. Sort of like a Bismarck.

 

[fast14riot]

Tha depends entirely on the alloy. I love 1084 steel for its ease of working through the entire process. I can grind the edge down to about .020" depending on how much steel is behind the edge, I.e. a full wedge versus a full hollow. Very thin grinds I like to leave a little bit more, maybe .027"-.030". It helps reduce the warpage. O1 I would use roughly the same figures. It likes an austenizing soak at 1500*F for about 20 minutes so that can cause issues with larger items (due to sag) but razors are just fine. HT'ing O1 in a 2BF can be done to an acceptable hardness, but optimal HT in a non controlled forge is difficult, at best. This is why I like 1084, and its cheaper than O1. Get it to non-magnetic, then just a little more and its ready to quench.


-Xander

 

[HLS]

That is fantastic!!! Nice grind my man. I've learned so much from this thread. I really appreciate the demonstration and explanation on how to get the warp out of the blade during tempering. You're a good teacher.

Jim

 

[fast14riot]

Thanx Jim! Straightening during temper works great. I have this short section of "T" beam that I use, but many people use angle iron or a large file to clamp to. You can also shim to flex it beyond the desired shape a bit, like adding a penny under one end and clamping in the middle, but that's a fine line that takes a few broken blades to learn where it is.

An added benefit of the large mass of steel, the "T" beam, is it add thermal mass to the oven during temperin to help reduce cycling. Most kitchen ovens will cycle through 30-50 degrees during heating, but with a big chunk of steel in there it helps keep the temp more stable. Large cast iron skillets work well too, just some large mass in there.

I really appreciate the compliment for being a good teacher. That means a lot to me, because I am learning through this whole process, I've never even handled a real kamisori before, let alone make one!


-Xander