L
Lo'Tek
My original intention here was to show actual factual pictures in favor over talk, talk, talk, talk, however I don't have a camera capable of macro photos. I do however have eyes and equipment to magnify and see a razor edge up close. My second approach here is to meditate on exactly what sharp and sharpening are, Metal & Sharpening Methods, then sight my personal observations. And last but not by any means least - my physical findings.
But before all that, I realized as my Shapton was in the mail, on it's way, that I would have to make sure my attitude was properly adjusted, step back from the whole "debate" and drop all that I had heard about the 30k Shapton both in the way of praise and in condemnation and start my appraisal with a fresh slate, neutral in my opinion and unbiassed in my leanings. After all, I had spent nearly $300 USD for this hone and it could be junk. If it is, can I admit it or will I stick to my guns and justify the hefty purchase with a slanted review in an attempt to curb any ideas that I am a complete moron (that's besides the point). One thing I always keep in mind though is the fact that not one person out there in B&B has any idea who I really am. So if I take a loss and get the shaft, can it really hurt my reputation? I would rather be honest in my review, and if it was a mistake I will return the stone to Craftsman Studio and try to save you the trouble. I will then purchase with the money I saved - all kinds of goodies, like a new Tony Miller strop, a T.M. four sided paddle strop & a good supply of diamond paste, maybe a nice gold badger brush, or any of a hundred other lovely things I can think of. So what follows is based off my final conclusion written after the matter, my personal un-leaning observations after feeling the difference and seeing it up close.
"They say the 30k Shapton is no different than the 16k."; "I love the 30k Shapton stone!"; I have heard commentary on both sides of the spectrum in each extreme and everywhere in between; some few by owners, and most, opinions from people repeating opinions of people who have read the opinion of someone respectable of whom has not seen more than a computer generated image of a Shapton. And who is this They anyway.
Illustration time.
A man was walking down the main street on his daily commute to work. According to his usual custom he paused in front of a display window at the local watch shop. On this particular day the shop smith greeted him outside. "I was wondering sir," he started "every day I watch you walk by my shop, and every day you pause to set your watch. You must have a very important job." "I do." the gentleman proudly replied. "A lot of people rely on me. You see that high tower at the other end of town?" he gestured toward the stack. "Well, every day at 9AM and 12 noon I have to blow the horn - and a lot of people in this town rely on my precise timing." "Oh No," the shopkeeper shouted out "You can't do that sir!" The horn blower looked at him puzzled. "Well what do you mean, why can't I?" "Because" said the watchman, every day at 12 noon I set my clocks by your horn."
The moral of this story is: Don't just be blowing your horn, Check Your Sources! And watch out for Bull Sh!#.
I'm aware that this post may not be the "End Of Discussion" as some bozos like to shout to the heavens following some shallow commentary of completely textbook know it all, testesterone flairing, chest beating ignorance. I hope that an ounce of sound reasoning (and maybe some pictures from a honemister, because a picture is worth a thousand words) will serve as better evidence than some of the things I have heard up till now, i.e. "IMO" and "he said", "The Mighty So & So Has Spoken!" - a friend of a friend of a friend, etc, etc, etc. . . at least until someone with a good macro lens comes along - oh p-l-e-a-s-e be a seasoned honemister, a veteran perfectionist not a moron with $300 to burn, a point to prove, a previously stated opinion to back up before and above the evidence, and an angry axe to grind a chip on the shoulder is evidence of wood higher up. I hope that any followup to this post will take these reasoning points into consideration.
Let's Consider Some Well Established Facts & Add An Ounce Of Reasonable Brain Processing.
Metal density, porisity: We'll not get all super technical here but the info is everywhere, and I could pull out a few of my Physics Text Books, google, or go to the local colledge. I'll leave that research to the reader. Sword, Knife, Razor makers have known this for years; by extension so do we. A prime "workable" hardness will hold a longer, more durable edge. A dense metal structure with a very fine, tight "grain" will maintain a more acute peak razor edge. When one takes these basic, elementary attributes into consideration with regards to edge sharpness we have to examine how much of a "point" we can get an edge to before 1. it is [so fine] on a micro level that a fine hair will bend over the superfine, uber-pointy edge, and 2. when does the tightness & fineness of the steel's grain take over, that is, how much can we sharpen individual micro strands of a metal? If we shift the discussion perspective from [sharpening a metal body] to the architecture of that body [sharpening metal strands] then we now see sharpness on a much different and closer level. One must farther contemplate how much shear you are willing to sacrifice in the name of more sharp than anything on earth, because a knife with more hone stratations (or deeper cross cut hone marks) will "slice" better at it's optimal sharpness for a given task. Will we one day achieve such a level of edge sharpness that we can no longer execute a "Scything" or "Slicing" stroke? Or perhaps at that level it will no longer be necessary.
It has been spoken and repeated by some that "They say that 8k is as sharp as you can get an edge, and that honing anything over 8k is not really sharpening, it's just polishing.".
By that same standard, logic dictates that if the 30k Shapton stone is not sharpening a steel then we have to redefine our razor "sharpening" systems. That said, consider the following.
Diamond paste finer than 8k is not acceptable sharpening media. Of course we must remember to put the emphasis on the word "sharpening" in this sentence. Some 20k grit diamond paste on a Tony Miller four sided paddle strop is only polishing your razor edge. Someone please tell T.M. to change the wording in his advertisement; you may want to forward this new [straight razor sharpening standard] to some of the diamond paste distributers too, like Straight Razor Designs for example, that they may appropriately refer to this as a Diamond Polishing Compound. Cromium Oxide at about 30,000 grit (the same as the said Shapton) is appropriately not a sharpening system. Someone call Josh.
Nakiyama Hones. What about the highly esteemed, sought after, natural quarried Japanese Maruka Nakayama Kiita Japanese Stone measuring at up to 40k to 50k respectively? When recently I told an associate about the Nakiyama, his response was "It sounds like something in the realms of the ancient Japanese Sword making folk lore about swords that could cut through rocks and metals without leaving a mark on the blade.".
By the [new standard] the Nakiyama is not honing but is however only an over glorified strop. If however the most respected Nakiyama is to continue to be harold as THE King Magister, Reverential, Quinticential, Hone of hones, by the same respects the "fast cutting" Shapton 30,000 grit ceramic stone which is a little closer to 8k follows close behind as an affordable and worthwhile straight razor sharpening investment a hone.
Sharpening vs Polishing - Reverse Psychology
If any grit over the set mark of 8k is only polishing, then we must in turn reason and see the same in reverse as well, that being that 8000 grit is actually polishing 1,200 grit; 500 grit is polishing 250 grit; 250 grit is only polishing a 100 grit - this all makes perfect sense to me. Who set the boundry of physics at 8,000 grit?
The Stone. This is what I found.
So what is all this based on? Well, IF the hone proved to be crap, this write-up would be far different. I would admit that it was a mistake, a waste of time and money, that it was sent back to whence it came. Readers & posters of B&B would thank me and maybe think this was a wise decision on my part. I would look good. Yet here I am backing up the Shapton 30k knowing that some individual(s) will still think I'm stupid. This is what I've found so I'll take the chance.
This is my second Shapton. I have used my other Shap. as long as I've been honing razors, as long as I have been using a straight so I knew what to expect as to pros & cons. For instance, they can scratch easily if your not careful and drag a piece of dibris over the face. I had a very small chip flake off one corner on the old Shap., it doesn't effect performance but I'm careful with it. I have a lot of hones, natural, diamond, and synthetic and the Shapts. cut faster than many natural stones; almost as fast as a diamond laden plate; and put on a smoother edge than all the hones I have personally tried.
Honing the Razors: I re-honed two of my blades one at a time all the way to 30k (the Filarmonica & Iwasaki). I worked each one to 16k before applying it to the 30k I use packaging tape for the spine at 16k as the tape is thinner than electrical and doesn't effect the bevel angle as much. I then ran the blades over the 30k without tape, first with about ten strokes on one side in a scrubbing back and forth motion, then the other side, I repeated this several times; I diminished the strokes by two until I reached one stroke per side and continued this with only blade pressure for another fifty passes. I tried a few strokes across my face. It felt a little sharper but not too much more than a 16k., though noticeably sharper(was it true that Shap's 30k is not any different than their 16k?). Then I stropped. After stropping I had what would have been a magic shave moment but for the fact that it was so sharp that I scraped my face a little, so I lightened my touch, adjusted my blade angle a little lower, and let it glide over my skin letting the blade do all the work. I would say that this hone moved both straights up a notch. The Filarmonica now feels more like the Iwasaki, and the Iwas.? That thing was already scary. I'm pleased with the results of my Shapton and will not send this thing back.
On Stropping: I find that the 30k is supper sharp after polishing with the strop. I have the same experience with any honing with any finish hone from 8k to 30k, that it improves and does not shave me good until after a strop. I don't feel that any hone should be judged before stropping.
By feel the 30k is as fine as 30,000 grit and not 16,000 grit, and the real act of polishing comes from stropping, which should be the case.
For my test I honed one blade at a time so I could compare by sight as I can not compare pictures later. I finished the Filarmonica first because it doesn't shave quite as good as the Iwasaki, so I wanted to use a standard straight to shave with first. After all, the Filarmonica is my first born. There was a definite difference between the cuts left by the two hones. In the edge of the 30k cut razor the cuts where finer and glassier than the 16k. The strop put a noticeable gleam on the blade. I wish I could supply photos but with my taste a SLR will cost more than a Shapton.
The 30,000 Shapton As a Barber's Hone. For me, this is where this plate shines. I've read enough about Barber's Hones. Barbers would take a couple strokes over a Barber's Hone every two or three weeks to keep up the edge. I usually have to hone to 16k every couple months as I don't poses a pasted strop for maintenance in between. The 16k removes less metal than an 8k, but I can see the wear all the same. I purchased the 30k with the intention of using it like a Pasted Strop / Barber's Hone combo, thereby removing as little debris from the blade as possible. A Maintenance Hone. I may get another 30k down the line so I can keep one ready in my bathroom at all times. Further, I don't have to think about running out of paste. It's bad enough I have to keep buying creams, gels, balms and the likes. I don't have to buy blades either (if I don't want to).
In Conclusion: I believe that even with photos there will be some personal observations and debating from anyone interpreting the photos; but Shapton has been a highly respectable company in the hone market for many years and it must take a lot to get all the ceramic media down to such a consistently fine micron. This, as it was pointed out to me by one of the many venders I contacted, no doubt helps to dictate the cost of the hone.
All this said, depending on how you look at it, evidence suggest that more honemisters are sharpening on a much higher level than ever before; and - until a hone is banned from the market for beginning a mass scale nuclear cascade, chain explosion via the cutting of atomic particles, people will buy them, some people will love them, some who bought one will not be satisfied and that's their right, and other people who have never operated one will debate and say "It" and the Holacost "never happened.".
But before all that, I realized as my Shapton was in the mail, on it's way, that I would have to make sure my attitude was properly adjusted, step back from the whole "debate" and drop all that I had heard about the 30k Shapton both in the way of praise and in condemnation and start my appraisal with a fresh slate, neutral in my opinion and unbiassed in my leanings. After all, I had spent nearly $300 USD for this hone and it could be junk. If it is, can I admit it or will I stick to my guns and justify the hefty purchase with a slanted review in an attempt to curb any ideas that I am a complete moron (that's besides the point). One thing I always keep in mind though is the fact that not one person out there in B&B has any idea who I really am. So if I take a loss and get the shaft, can it really hurt my reputation? I would rather be honest in my review, and if it was a mistake I will return the stone to Craftsman Studio and try to save you the trouble. I will then purchase with the money I saved - all kinds of goodies, like a new Tony Miller strop, a T.M. four sided paddle strop & a good supply of diamond paste, maybe a nice gold badger brush, or any of a hundred other lovely things I can think of. So what follows is based off my final conclusion written after the matter, my personal un-leaning observations after feeling the difference and seeing it up close.
"They say the 30k Shapton is no different than the 16k."; "I love the 30k Shapton stone!"; I have heard commentary on both sides of the spectrum in each extreme and everywhere in between; some few by owners, and most, opinions from people repeating opinions of people who have read the opinion of someone respectable of whom has not seen more than a computer generated image of a Shapton. And who is this They anyway.
Illustration time.
A man was walking down the main street on his daily commute to work. According to his usual custom he paused in front of a display window at the local watch shop. On this particular day the shop smith greeted him outside. "I was wondering sir," he started "every day I watch you walk by my shop, and every day you pause to set your watch. You must have a very important job." "I do." the gentleman proudly replied. "A lot of people rely on me. You see that high tower at the other end of town?" he gestured toward the stack. "Well, every day at 9AM and 12 noon I have to blow the horn - and a lot of people in this town rely on my precise timing." "Oh No," the shopkeeper shouted out "You can't do that sir!" The horn blower looked at him puzzled. "Well what do you mean, why can't I?" "Because" said the watchman, every day at 12 noon I set my clocks by your horn."
The moral of this story is: Don't just be blowing your horn, Check Your Sources! And watch out for Bull Sh!#.
I'm aware that this post may not be the "End Of Discussion" as some bozos like to shout to the heavens following some shallow commentary of completely textbook know it all, testesterone flairing, chest beating ignorance. I hope that an ounce of sound reasoning (and maybe some pictures from a honemister, because a picture is worth a thousand words) will serve as better evidence than some of the things I have heard up till now, i.e. "IMO" and "he said", "The Mighty So & So Has Spoken!" - a friend of a friend of a friend, etc, etc, etc. . . at least until someone with a good macro lens comes along - oh p-l-e-a-s-e be a seasoned honemister, a veteran perfectionist not a moron with $300 to burn, a point to prove, a previously stated opinion to back up before and above the evidence, and an angry axe to grind a chip on the shoulder is evidence of wood higher up. I hope that any followup to this post will take these reasoning points into consideration.
Let's Consider Some Well Established Facts & Add An Ounce Of Reasonable Brain Processing.
Metal density, porisity: We'll not get all super technical here but the info is everywhere, and I could pull out a few of my Physics Text Books, google, or go to the local colledge. I'll leave that research to the reader. Sword, Knife, Razor makers have known this for years; by extension so do we. A prime "workable" hardness will hold a longer, more durable edge. A dense metal structure with a very fine, tight "grain" will maintain a more acute peak razor edge. When one takes these basic, elementary attributes into consideration with regards to edge sharpness we have to examine how much of a "point" we can get an edge to before 1. it is [so fine] on a micro level that a fine hair will bend over the superfine, uber-pointy edge, and 2. when does the tightness & fineness of the steel's grain take over, that is, how much can we sharpen individual micro strands of a metal? If we shift the discussion perspective from [sharpening a metal body] to the architecture of that body [sharpening metal strands] then we now see sharpness on a much different and closer level. One must farther contemplate how much shear you are willing to sacrifice in the name of more sharp than anything on earth, because a knife with more hone stratations (or deeper cross cut hone marks) will "slice" better at it's optimal sharpness for a given task. Will we one day achieve such a level of edge sharpness that we can no longer execute a "Scything" or "Slicing" stroke? Or perhaps at that level it will no longer be necessary.
It has been spoken and repeated by some that "They say that 8k is as sharp as you can get an edge, and that honing anything over 8k is not really sharpening, it's just polishing.".
By that same standard, logic dictates that if the 30k Shapton stone is not sharpening a steel then we have to redefine our razor "sharpening" systems. That said, consider the following.
Diamond paste finer than 8k is not acceptable sharpening media. Of course we must remember to put the emphasis on the word "sharpening" in this sentence. Some 20k grit diamond paste on a Tony Miller four sided paddle strop is only polishing your razor edge. Someone please tell T.M. to change the wording in his advertisement; you may want to forward this new [straight razor sharpening standard] to some of the diamond paste distributers too, like Straight Razor Designs for example, that they may appropriately refer to this as a Diamond Polishing Compound. Cromium Oxide at about 30,000 grit (the same as the said Shapton) is appropriately not a sharpening system. Someone call Josh.
Nakiyama Hones. What about the highly esteemed, sought after, natural quarried Japanese Maruka Nakayama Kiita Japanese Stone measuring at up to 40k to 50k respectively? When recently I told an associate about the Nakiyama, his response was "It sounds like something in the realms of the ancient Japanese Sword making folk lore about swords that could cut through rocks and metals without leaving a mark on the blade.".
By the [new standard] the Nakiyama is not honing but is however only an over glorified strop. If however the most respected Nakiyama is to continue to be harold as THE King Magister, Reverential, Quinticential, Hone of hones, by the same respects the "fast cutting" Shapton 30,000 grit ceramic stone which is a little closer to 8k follows close behind as an affordable and worthwhile straight razor sharpening investment a hone.
Sharpening vs Polishing - Reverse Psychology
If any grit over the set mark of 8k is only polishing, then we must in turn reason and see the same in reverse as well, that being that 8000 grit is actually polishing 1,200 grit; 500 grit is polishing 250 grit; 250 grit is only polishing a 100 grit - this all makes perfect sense to me. Who set the boundry of physics at 8,000 grit?
The Stone. This is what I found.
So what is all this based on? Well, IF the hone proved to be crap, this write-up would be far different. I would admit that it was a mistake, a waste of time and money, that it was sent back to whence it came. Readers & posters of B&B would thank me and maybe think this was a wise decision on my part. I would look good. Yet here I am backing up the Shapton 30k knowing that some individual(s) will still think I'm stupid. This is what I've found so I'll take the chance.
This is my second Shapton. I have used my other Shap. as long as I've been honing razors, as long as I have been using a straight so I knew what to expect as to pros & cons. For instance, they can scratch easily if your not careful and drag a piece of dibris over the face. I had a very small chip flake off one corner on the old Shap., it doesn't effect performance but I'm careful with it. I have a lot of hones, natural, diamond, and synthetic and the Shapts. cut faster than many natural stones; almost as fast as a diamond laden plate; and put on a smoother edge than all the hones I have personally tried.
Honing the Razors: I re-honed two of my blades one at a time all the way to 30k (the Filarmonica & Iwasaki). I worked each one to 16k before applying it to the 30k I use packaging tape for the spine at 16k as the tape is thinner than electrical and doesn't effect the bevel angle as much. I then ran the blades over the 30k without tape, first with about ten strokes on one side in a scrubbing back and forth motion, then the other side, I repeated this several times; I diminished the strokes by two until I reached one stroke per side and continued this with only blade pressure for another fifty passes. I tried a few strokes across my face. It felt a little sharper but not too much more than a 16k., though noticeably sharper(was it true that Shap's 30k is not any different than their 16k?). Then I stropped. After stropping I had what would have been a magic shave moment but for the fact that it was so sharp that I scraped my face a little, so I lightened my touch, adjusted my blade angle a little lower, and let it glide over my skin letting the blade do all the work. I would say that this hone moved both straights up a notch. The Filarmonica now feels more like the Iwasaki, and the Iwas.? That thing was already scary. I'm pleased with the results of my Shapton and will not send this thing back.
On Stropping: I find that the 30k is supper sharp after polishing with the strop. I have the same experience with any honing with any finish hone from 8k to 30k, that it improves and does not shave me good until after a strop. I don't feel that any hone should be judged before stropping.
By feel the 30k is as fine as 30,000 grit and not 16,000 grit, and the real act of polishing comes from stropping, which should be the case.
For my test I honed one blade at a time so I could compare by sight as I can not compare pictures later. I finished the Filarmonica first because it doesn't shave quite as good as the Iwasaki, so I wanted to use a standard straight to shave with first. After all, the Filarmonica is my first born. There was a definite difference between the cuts left by the two hones. In the edge of the 30k cut razor the cuts where finer and glassier than the 16k. The strop put a noticeable gleam on the blade. I wish I could supply photos but with my taste a SLR will cost more than a Shapton.
The 30,000 Shapton As a Barber's Hone. For me, this is where this plate shines. I've read enough about Barber's Hones. Barbers would take a couple strokes over a Barber's Hone every two or three weeks to keep up the edge. I usually have to hone to 16k every couple months as I don't poses a pasted strop for maintenance in between. The 16k removes less metal than an 8k, but I can see the wear all the same. I purchased the 30k with the intention of using it like a Pasted Strop / Barber's Hone combo, thereby removing as little debris from the blade as possible. A Maintenance Hone. I may get another 30k down the line so I can keep one ready in my bathroom at all times. Further, I don't have to think about running out of paste. It's bad enough I have to keep buying creams, gels, balms and the likes. I don't have to buy blades either (if I don't want to).
In Conclusion: I believe that even with photos there will be some personal observations and debating from anyone interpreting the photos; but Shapton has been a highly respectable company in the hone market for many years and it must take a lot to get all the ceramic media down to such a consistently fine micron. This, as it was pointed out to me by one of the many venders I contacted, no doubt helps to dictate the cost of the hone.
All this said, depending on how you look at it, evidence suggest that more honemisters are sharpening on a much higher level than ever before; and - until a hone is banned from the market for beginning a mass scale nuclear cascade, chain explosion via the cutting of atomic particles, people will buy them, some people will love them, some who bought one will not be satisfied and that's their right, and other people who have never operated one will debate and say "It" and the Holacost "never happened.".
Pete and RePete were sitting in a boat........
