Something I don't understand about soaps.

[vaplanman]

Let me start by saying I am a complete noob to wet shaving. I learned to shave on a DE in the mid '70s but that was with canned cream. My beard is not thick but fairly wiry. It grows slowly. Daily shaves are not needed but every other morning suits me fine.

I am enjoying experimenting but I have a bit of a problem. Purchased the inexpensive shaving kit by Van der Hagen, soap, bowl and boar brush. I can now get a good lather by following some of the tips and videos referenced here. It's a thick lather that spreads nicely and sticks around in the bowl for all three passes (thought I might need to add a bit more soap) I don't think I add too much water, no large bubbles and the lather is smooth and creamy. My problem is that I also purchased a bar of handmade soap from a local artisan. Using it to face lather, I generally find that the shaves are more comfortable and closer than using the Van der Hagen soap. When I face lathering, I don't get a great lather and I tend to find that it dissipates just as I finish the the pass but it still gives me better results.

So, my question. Is this a matter of technique? I will continue to try both bowl and face lathering. Or is there really that much difference between my no-name soap and Van der Hagen? Is there a particular ingredient in the hand-made that maybe agrees with my face and current technique? I've read both good and bad reviews of VDH and I certainly understand "YMMV!"

Any opinions are welcome!

 

[tnevy4]

VDH has always worked well for me, but similar to your experience with the local soap I have some Art of Shaving Sandalwood cream that has always worked best for me with a thin lather. It is very slick, and I don't get any irritation with it. It is just however the soap works best for you man.

 

[RobW]

Bottom line is that yes, there can be a huge difference between soaps, especially between soaps manufactured by artisans and a large company like VDH. Your experience ("better" shaves) and your observation (thin, dissipating lather) seem at odds with each other, which is confusing, but I guess that's why you're asking the question, right? You might just be "shaving better" (i.e., less pressure, more consistent blade angle, etc) with one soap over the other since I'm guessing you don't have a totally consistent technique yet.

Do you have an ingredient list for that artisan soap by chance? Sometimes they will put certain ingredients in their soaps that don't usually make for a great lather (for instance, olive oil) and lead to some rough results.

All that being said, go with whatever gives you the best shave! Life's too short for bad shaves and irritation!

 

[Teppanyaki]

Welcome! Lathering is something that I keep learning about, even months into shaving (and probably years when I get that far in). I'd watch Mantic's videos and also read http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/21136-How-to-make-great-lather-from-a-soap-Tutorial

 

[Mr Pink]

The handmade soap most likely has better ingredients in it and all the natural glycerin. The handmade artisan soap I use is all natural and has a wonderful mix of high quality ingredients to provide the ultimate shave soap experience. Not sure a mass produced factory product could come close to handmade without being really expensive and even then you may only be paying for the name. I also have read that some mass produced soap processes even extract the glycerin and sell it at a higher premium leaving the soap with less than natural or no glycerin. I have had major issues with soaps and products due to having sensitive skin so I have done a lot of research.

 

[dushea]

Soaps can definitely behave differently. I've found that there are general guidelines to follow across all soaps, but each one I have likes things a little differently than others, whether it's the amount of water, the difference in loading time or the difference in brushes. I think this is magnified when using a local artisan, as they might not be quite as in tune with the ingredients and processes of the more popular producers. Not to say they won't work as well, but the small nuances of lathering you'll need to change and overall look and feel of the lather itself may be quite different.

 

[Cumberland Sausage]

Might it be that the apparently "better" VDH lather doesn't give the same "glide" as the thinner lather from the artisan soap, but just looks more appealing? Big firms are often good at producing stuff that looks wonderful, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it is.

 

[shoulderpet]

perhaps there are moisturising ingredients in the handmade soap that are reducing the lather but increasing the glide, a big thick lather doesn't guarantee a greatshave

 

[Evil4blue]

I'm going to go on a not too dangerous limb here and say you need to add more water to the artisan soap. When I face lather, I usually start with a damp face, and either rub the puck/stick all over my beard or load the brush for 30-45 secs and then start working the soap onto my face. Either way, I will dip my brush tips at least 2 times while building the lather on my face...so that's wet face, wet brush, and 2 dips of water. That formula seems to work pretty well as a start with any soap. I bet if you add some more water you'll get a nicer lather and even more glide.

 

[smithabrian]

I started DE shaving in August this year about the same time I joined this forum. My first shaving soap was also the VDH from the local drugstore. I had a brand new boar brush and I didn't get a good lather with that soap. It was too wet and dissipated immediately. After that I tried a tub of TOBS, which is really a cream not a soap. I liked that a lot, and the lather was no problem whatsoever. I also tried Stirling soaps after reading so much on here about them, and now they are my primary soap. This morning, I had just finished one of my Stirling free samples and I grabbed my old puck of VDH under the sink. To my surprise it lathered right up and the lather was very creamy and long-lasting. I don't know whether my brush is more broken in, or my technique is better, or both, but I was actually pleased with the VDH. It doesn't have the same slickness as the Stirling, so it won't be my primary, but it worked.

I also have a few bars of homemade soap curing in a cabinet - my second round. I got a recipe off of here, and a few other web sites, learned how to do some soap-related chemistry calculations, and made some cold-process shaving soap about three weeks ago. It took me about two hours one Saturday morning. My earlier batch of tallow-only soap created good hand-soap, but not shaving soap, so I'll be curious to see if my experiment succeeded in another week or so.

 

[driftwood]

What was the recipe that you used for your shaving soap? I make my own too so I'm always curious what others recipes look like

Sorry for the hijack.

 

[smithabrian]

What was the recipe that you used for your shaving soap? I make my own too so I'm always curious what others recipes look like

Sorry for the hijack.

No problem... My soap recipe is:

Oil	Percent
Tallow	80%
--Stearic (14%)	11.20%
--Palmitic (26%)	20.80%
--Myristic (3%)	2.40%
--Oleic (47%)	37.60%
--Palmitoleic (3%)	2.40%
--Lineolic (3%)	2.40%
--Linolenic (1%)	0.80%
Coconut	8.00%
Stearic Acid	12%

After trace I added about a tablespoon of bentonite clay. I used 50:50 NaOH and KOH. This is 5% superfat. Also, I use 38% water-to-oil.

Got any recipes you'd like to share with me?

 

[driftwood]

I will but I'm using my phone right now and the recipes you posted just look like crazy "computer language" characters. Once I get home ill post the last recipe I did.

 

[smithabrian]

I will but I'm using my phone right now and the recipes you posted just look like crazy "computer language" characters. Once I get home ill post the last recipe I did.

OK, looking forward to it. Sorry this isn't readable on the phone. I did a cut-and-paste job from a Google Docs spreadsheet. It looks fine on my screen, but no telling how it will translate to others. Maybe I should keep it a secret

 

[driftwood]

Oooo! Secret shave soap, my favorite!

 

[vaplanman]

Thanks to everyone that replied. I guess I was confused by the fact that the lack of lathering ability of the artisan soap seemed to be opposing my experience with the comfort and closeness of the shave. I did some research on DE technique and purchased a couple of pucks from Sterling Soap Co. Will see where that leads....