Some glue questions ...

[Blue-EyedSon]

I should have some knots coming in tomorrow and I think I've decided to use the Liquid Nails silicone adhesive because I think I remember reading that it's easier to clean out of the hair if some gets squeezed up. Is that right? And what's the best way to clean the hair if some does sneak out? I've seen people suggest white vinegar for epoxy, but would it be the same for a silicone adhesive?

Also, is there any danger in under-gluing a knot? I'm concerned, if you haven't guessed, about glue getting in in the hair and I'm thinking that the only danger in using too little glue is that the knot could come out of the handle. But if the knot came out of the handle, it could just be re-glued without issue, right? Or are there others things to worry about in using a minimal amount of glue?

 

[PozzSka]

I would try to use as little glue as necessary. For just that reason, to keep the knot clean of glue.

I used a little too much in one knot and had to race/struggle to get epoxy out of the hairs at the handle opening.

If you are filling the handle, put in a little, tap it down, add a little more, tap it down, then eyeball (or measure if you are anal about it) where the knot will touch, then only add enough for the base of the knot to "sink" into the adhesive.

That's my thoughts. and, like you said, if you use too little and the knot pops out, you add a little more and give it another go.

 

[PozzSka]

Can't recommend the use of silicone adhesive as I've not tried it.

I use the minimal amount of adhesive necessary to set knots and have never had a problem with this approach. I'm using Devcon 2-part epoxy and spread a thin layer of mixture on the base inside the handle and another thin layer on the knot base. The knot is inserted, seated and then given a quarter twist to ensure good adhesive contact between knot/handle bases. It's worked every time with no mess.

I agree, it doesn't take much...but in the case of having to fill an empty handle, epoxy is too messy when having to use a bunch of it, my caulking gun works well, haha!

 

[Bongopalms]

Can't help with the silicone adhesive question, as I've used Devon 30 minute epoxy so far. But after using epoxy to fill the handle and getting it up the in the knot a little, I'm changing my technique. Although vinegar did work to clean the knot, it was a nuisance.

This time, I will fill the handle with plaster of paris to the right height for the base of the knot, then use the minimum amount of epoxy to cover the plaster (water protection) and secure the knot.

Good luck! It's a fun hobby!

 

[Kentos]

When I am caulking counters and showerstalls with 100% silicone I use denatured alcohol. After the bead is set and prior to tooling, I mist the area with the alcohol. Silicon will not stick to the alcohol so using a finger the bead can be smoothed out nicely without messy steaks on adjacent surfaces.
How you use this info is up to you, as I am not sure how the alcohol will affect the hair. However if I were me, I would just use epoxy. Silicone does not flow and settle into small gaps and voids as well as epoxy, and you may leave small chinks which will soak water via capillary action and you may end up with a stinky knot. I have seen MANY clear silicone beads with extensive mildew and mild growth UNDER the bead. YMMV, of course.

 

[Blue-EyedSon]

Thanks to all for the feedback. Based on the last post, I'm wondering if I should re-think the decision to go with the silicone adhesive. It sounds like most don't have too much trouble with using an epoxy and that the vinegar trick does help a bit. So, if there's a risk to the silicone adhesive, maybe I should just go with epoxy and be extra careful with some vinegar at the ready. Thanks again!

 

[Kentos]

Hey Brian, it's not hard at all. Just choose a slower setting epoxy so you have more time to work it. I think the slowest is 45 min, while the fast is 5 min. Once you have everything dry fit to your liking use a small brush( I use a toothpick) to coat the bottom of the knot (the bottom resin cap that holds all the hair together)and the bottom of the handle. Don't get glue on the side of the knot since the hole in the brush will scrape it all off when you insert it in. Stick the knot in the brush and turn it as was mentioned before. If you have enough you should feel resistance since the viscosity of the epoxy will drag between the knot and handle side. Not enough and it will feel more slippery, for lack of a better word. If you need more take it out and add a dab more. If you put too much and you see it start to ooze, take it out and wipe a bit off the knot, or do the vinegar trick. If you are setting the knot deeper on the handle for low loft you can overfill a little with no prob. Ideally you would want a tiny bit of overflow to ensure the entire cavity is filled, leaving no room for water infiltration. A lot of restorers would think I'm overanalyzing the water thing, but mildew and mold bother me enough to go overboard on the glue thing. However, they are probably right.
I used to be worried about seepage, but by my 4th one a little shiny coating on the bottom hairs doesn't bother me anymore. As long as there isnt a big wad gushing out spilling over the handle you are good.

 

[Hex]

Thanks to all for the feedback. Based on the last post, I'm wondering if I should re-think the decision to go with the silicone adhesive. It sounds like most don't have too much trouble with using an epoxy and that the vinegar trick does help a bit. So, if there's a risk to the silicone adhesive, maybe I should just go with epoxy and be extra careful with some vinegar at the ready. Thanks again!

+1

Yeppers, go with the epoxy.

 

[huck1680]

Brian

I use both a 24 hour cure time and a 5 minute epoxy. It just depends on the application. My process is to coat the bottom & sides of the hole with epoxy Don't get crazy with amount & make sure the knot is seated on the base of the hole. The reason for doing it this way is, when the knot ferrule slides down that makes sure the sides are coated and sealed as well. Practise with some scrap wood and dowels if you like. If any glue does seep up, simply wipe it off. It will not affect the performance of the brush.

 

[Blue-EyedSon]

Sounds like I'll be making another trip to the hardware store for some epoxy (it's never a complete project unless one makes at least two trips to the hardware store, right? ), unless, of course, those that have used silicone want to persuade me the other way again.

 

[Donmuerto]

Well, I will say this first: I think you can do this with silicone or epoxy, and you will be successful either way.

Now I will say this second: If you screw up, I would much rather dig a bunch of silicone out of a handle than I would want to dig out epoxy.

 

[Kentos]

Very true, or find a friend with a set of forstner bits and a drill press( or steady hand)

 

[Rudy Vey]

Brian, all I use for my brushes is Devcon 5 min epoxy.

 

[Blue-EyedSon]

Thanks all. I ended up going with the Devcon 5. It was my first time using epoxy like this, but it was surprisingly easy. I don't think that I'd want to use epoxy to try filling an empty handle, but it was really easy to use for getting the knot secured. I used just enough to cover the plug (bottom and a tiny bit on the sides) and a tiny bit on the shelf. I had no seepage at all, which was my concern, and the knots aren't going anywhere. And the great thing about the quick setting epoxy was that I get to play with them sooner. So, thanks to those that encouraged me to try the epoxy!