smallmouth vs. largemouth

[scottb]

hey all--

after a season chasing largemouth I caught a couple smallies and am in love with them.

They are new to me, and while I know some of the big differences (depth, structure, etc.) I'm unsure about hook size. Some of my favorite jigs have hooks that are probably 4/0--6/0.....are these too large for smallmouth? I'm wondering if I should stick to #1-3/0. I'm hoping to grab some hair jigs (another new thing for me) for Spring.

Any advice is welcome; thanks in advance.

--sb

 

[Jim]

I cannot say that I have noticed a problem hooking smallies with a 4 or 6 hook. I have had good luck with a willow leaf spinner in gold and red.

 

[oakeshott]

Scott,
Some of that depends on where and how you're fishing for them. Can you tell us the type of water you're working?
oake

 

[scottb]

Scott,
Some of that depends on where and how you're fishing for them. Can you tell us the type of water you're working?
oake

Sure--most of my access for smallmouth will be clear-to-stained water in one or two of the fingerlakes (pretty big) with rocky drop-off's, maybe 15-30 feet deep, though I can get out deeper if need be. I was thinking of rotating spinners/spoons, swimbaits that mimic local baitfish, and football jigs to mimic crawdads, with maybe a senko or two thrown in. I'm not sure yet...I'm having to revamp everything I've tweaked for bigmouths.

Of those lures it's the single hook rigs that I'm concerned about--I've been told that smallmouth don't always go for something if the profile is too big, so I was wondering if hook size played a part as well. I'd hate to miss a good fish because the hook was too big for its mouth.

Now that the temperature has started to drop I don't know if anything will be biting until March or so, but I'd like to be ready.

thanks again.

 

[Obiwan]

Not too much luck for smallmouths in RI, but my in-laws have a lakehouse in Maine that is pretty much just small mouths. So its only a few times a year I get to enjoy catching them. My favorite way to catch them has been when at night with a 5/8 black jitterbug. It feels like cheating.

 

[Crixus]

I really enjoyed wading upstream in shallow rivers in different areas of the northern US when I lived up there, casting as I went and letting the current bounce my rigs off the bottom as it brought it back down. I have found that smallmouth are a good bit warier than largemouth, and clumsy presentations will cost you. You just won't know it.

 

[stobes21]

The only time I've caught smallies with any real success was a lake along the Canadian border in Minnesota. As I recall we used minnows on simple carolina rigs. I don't recall the exact hook size but I know they weren't particularly small.

 

[oakeshott]

Sure--most of my access for smallmouth will be clear-to-stained water in one or two of the fingerlakes (pretty big) with rocky drop-off's, maybe 15-30 feet deep, though I can get out deeper if need be. I was thinking of rotating spinners/spoons, swimbaits that mimic local baitfish, and football jigs to mimic crawdads, with maybe a senko or two thrown in. I'm not sure yet...I'm having to revamp everything I've tweaked for bigmouths.

Of those lures it's the single hook rigs that I'm concerned about--I've been told that smallmouth don't always go for something if the profile is too big, so I was wondering if hook size played a part as well. I'd hate to miss a good fish because the hook was too big for its mouth.

Now that the temperature has started to drop I don't know if anything will be biting until March or so, but I'd like to be ready.

thanks again.

My brother and I went fishing for trophy smallies in Dale Hollow Lake in Tennessee many years ago and used, as I recall, hook sizes in line with what you'd use for largemouth. If big ones are there, then they'd not shy away from a bigger hook size at all. The thing is, very few of them get that big up in the Northeast and I think I'd probably try and go a little smaller unless I were targeting big fish.

I've had my best luck for smallies with a variety of jigs, but the most fun is topwater with a fly rod. Man, my fingers get itchy just thinking about topwater flyfishing for smallies. My favorite fresh water fish.

 

[gaseousclay]

isn't it obvious?

 

[_JP_]

Smallmouth for me means flowing water because we don't really have still water that they swim in. I usually use underwater flies of about an inch or so, which imitates the local food sources.

 

[scottb]

I've had my best luck for smallies with a variety of jigs, but the most fun is topwater with a fly rod. Man, my fingers get itchy just thinking about topwater flyfishing for smallies. My favorite fresh water fish.

Those of you that fish for smallmouth with fly rods, are you using poppers and wooly buggers? I had so much fun topwater fishing for largemouth this year and would love to see some of the same action for the bronzebacks. Of course, for largemouth I was using a pretty big frog.

 

[oakeshott]

Those of you that fish for smallmouth with fly rods, are you using poppers and wooly buggers? I had so much fun topwater fishing for largemouth this year and would love to see some of the same action for the bronzebacks. Of course, for largemouth I was using a pretty big frog.

Well, of course it depends on the time of year, day, location and kind of water. Nothing's simple, right? The two places I used to fish regularly for smallies with a fly rod are the Shenandoah and associated rivers here in Virginia and Great Pond in Maine when I was up there for a project. In Maine, it was spawning season and I exclusively used top water. Both poppers and wooly buggers and nearly anything else at that time of year works. Later in the year, the only time top water flies were regular producers was early am or at dusk. Never fished the Pond once they went deep and don't think a fly rod would have been of much use at that point. On moving water though, I always moved to sinking tips and streamers later in the year. The key there was to get deep fast. Never really mastered this part of the game for smallies (or trout), but maybe Lefty Kreh needs help with his stropping technique and will notice this thread when he logs in.

 

[joshua1970]

Well, of course it depends on the time of year, day, location and kind of water. Nothing's simple, right? The two places I used to fish regularly for smallies with a fly rod are the Shenandoah and associated rivers here in Virginia and Great Pond in Maine when I was up there for a project. In Maine, it was spawning season and I exclusively used top water. Both poppers and wooly buggers and nearly anything else at that time of year works. Later in the year, the only time top water flies were regular producers was early am or at dusk. Never fished the Pond once they went deep and don't think a fly rod would have been of much use at that point. On moving water though, I always moved to sinking tips and streamers later in the year. The key there was to get deep fast. Never really mastered this part of the game for smallies (or trout), but maybe Lefty Kreh needs help with his stropping technique and will notice this thread when he logs in.

+1

I only fish for smallies in the susquehanna bt its' a blast. if there is surface action I'll throw on a popper, hopper or large stimulator. Smallies are def not picky when they have turned on. When fishing subsurface I usually use a clouser minnows, wooly buggers, crawfish patterns, dragonfly/damsel nypmphs. agan if they are on anything works.. if they aren't I play with colors and experiment

I've also had good luck putting frogs fanny (aka: fletch dry) on one side of a large (size 2-4) bucktail streamer, goign into eddies or slow stretches and twitching it on the surface like a dying minnow. they NAIL it, and even had a musky grab one - tho using such light tackle I had no chance of bringing it in. (I generally use a 9' 6 wt rod and size 0 tippet material for smallies)

I've had the joy/terror of fishing the Euphoron Leukon hatch (famous white fly hatch) almost every year in early august which is so thick that the bridges are closed due to both the clouds of bugs at night and the slickness of the spinners that fall on the pavement... you seriously need mosquito netting or you'll have mayflies in your nose and eat about a pound of em. It's defintiely an experience, too much for some. i think the only American hatch that'S heavier is the Hex hatch in Michigan - though I've only heard storIEs about em. Also., during teh white fly hatch, every fish in the river comes up for them - channel cats, carp, walleye - I think everything but the musky enjoy scooping up mouthfuls of the lil buggers. so you never know what you may hook into! though it's ALL guesswork as you will never see your fly on the water.

if you catch it right you can literally catch 100+ fish in a few hours. insanity but fun!!

 

[oakeshott]

+1

I only fish for smallies in the susquehanna bt its' a blast. if there is surface action I'll throw on a popper, hopper or large stimulator. Smallies are def not picky when they have turned on. When fishing subsurface I usually use a clouser minnows, wooly buggers, crawfish patterns, dragonfly/damsel nypmphs. agan if they are on anything works.. if they aren't I play with colors and experiment

I've also had good luck putting frogs fanny (aka: fletch dry) on one side of a large (size 2-4) bucktail streamer, goign into eddies or slow stretches and twitching it on the surface like a dying minnow. they NAIL it, and even had a musky grab one - tho using such light tackle I had no chance of bringing it in. (I generally use a 9' 6 wt rod and size 0 tippet material for smallies)

I've had the joy/terror of fishing the Euphoron Leukon hatch (famous white fly hatch) almost every year in early august which is so thick that the bridges are closed due to both the clouds of bugs at night and the slickness of the spinners that fall on the pavement... you seriously need mosquito netting or you'll have mayflies in your nose and eat about a pound of em. It's defintiely an experience, too much for some. i think the only American hatch that'S heavier is the Hex hatch in Michigan - though I've only heard storIEs about em. Also., during teh white fly hatch, every fish in the river comes up for them - channel cats, carp, walleye - I think everything but the musky enjoy scooping up mouthfuls of the lil buggers. so you never know what you may hook into! though it's ALL guesswork as you will never see your fly on the water.

if you catch it right you can literally catch 100+ fish in a few hours. insanity but fun!!

Joshua,
I've fished the Susquehanna with Ken Penrod (if you know him) in May when the water's still high, but the smallies are big. No fly fishing then though. It's a great river and I wish it were closer to me and farther from the poultry farms.

I've never heard of the hatch you describe. Is that also on the Susquehanna? Does it only last a day or a period of days?

 

[joshua1970]

Joshua,
I've fished the Susquehanna with Ken Penrod (if you know him) in May when the water's still high, but the smallies are big. No fly fishing then though. It's a great river and I wish it were closer to me and farther from the poultry farms.

I've never heard of the hatch you describe. Is that also on the Susquehanna? Does it only last a day or a period of days?

I've heard of Ken Penrod's guiding - he's much farther south than me (below Harrisburg) I was supposed to go on a float trip with Bob Clouser a number of years ago down that way too - but trip was cancelled and haven't had a chance to rebook it. those guys will definitely know the hot spots on the southern Susky as well as anyone! I was fortunate to be shown some hot spots up in this area by Mark Tinsky (pipemaker and fisherman extraordinaire and Joe Ackourey, a local guide and overall great guy)

I'm up by Wilkes-Barre and fish it north by Tunkhannock/Meshoppen, right in town by the bridges in Wilkes-Barre up to the municipal airport (urban fishing at it's finest) and south towards Berwick PA. in fact after having that musky on for a few seconds I became obsessed wth catching a musky on a fly brought a 9 weight and tied some huuge poppers and streamers. Alas no luck, and threw out my arm - think I need to hunt for the musky with spin/casting rod and a big ole loud hookless rapala to find the fish and then cast the fly once I find one (but that'll be tough while wading lol) One day.

a thought I've been planning, but have yet to execute is to tie up some "stocked rainbow trout' patterns about 7-8" and get a boat to where the local stocked trout streams enter the susquehanna (there are about 5-6 decent sstreams that are overfished in early trout season, so this would be the perfect alternative to jockeying for position with them or traveling far to find the out of the way spots of wild brookies and browns). I am absolutely positive that the big muskies congregate around those tributaries in stocking season wink wink

as for the White fly hatch - they hatch for about 1-2 weeks but the prime hatch is about 2-3 nights. literally millions of bugs - the largest hatch on the Susquehanna by far, with various sulfurs coming in June & July. there are also pretty good white fly hatches on some of the south central Pa limestone cricks like the Yellow Breeches and Latorte, tho I've never caught those hatches myself.

my all time favorite hatch is the green drake hatch on Penn's creek in mid May by State College PA. BIG bugs, BIG wild brown trout - but sadly too many people.

here is a video of the Ephuron Leukon hatch on the susquehanna right by the airport where I fish:

it's INTENSE!!! (and this is with a spotlight attracting them a few days AFTER the hatch had hit its' peak!)

I love fishing for smallies on my (usually muddy) warmwater local here in Upstate SC, right at the Southern edge of their range. They're a blast on a 6 wt. I usually strip streamers around fishy-looking runs. Anything silver, white, or even purple that looks like a wounded minnow can produce. So crystal buggers, zonkers, rabbit-strip streamers, clousers, etc. can all work. I will sometimes fish poppers, but get frustrated easily when I miss too many strikes.
View attachment 287432

edit: I've been told that some of the more elaborately-patterned ones I catch down there might be Coosa or Spotted bass. I don't know, but they fight like the dickens!
View attachment 287439

wow!!! never seen smallies with that much color!!! my guess is they are spotted bass, or a hybrid! gorgeous!! truly truly gorgeous!!

our smallies up here are your basic bronzeback - dull in color and taste (I am not a freshwater bass fan for eating, anyhow), but beautiful in both fight and spirit! and they are indeed a blast on a 6 wt!!

 

[oakeshott]

I'm up by Wilkes-Barre and fish it north by Tunkhannock/Meshoppen, right in town by the bridges in Wilkes-Barre up to the municipal airport (urban fishing at it's finest) and south towards Berwick PA. in fact after having that musky on for a few seconds I became obsessed wth catching a musky on a fly brought a 9 weight and tied some huuge poppers and streamers. Alas no luck, and threw out my arm - think I need to hunt for the musky with spin/casting rod and a big ole loud hookless rapala to find the fish and then cast the fly once I find one (but that'll be tough while wading lol) One day.

Josh,
I started my flyfishing in saltwater and so for a year or two, I had no idea what anyone would want with a fly rod smaller than a 9 weight. That was really my passion for several years and I miss it. If you ever get the chance, go to the keys and fish the flats. I've had a Tarpon, Blacktip shark, Barracuda, bonefish and, once, a small yellowfin tuna on my flyrod (the tuna was while tied up to a shrimp boat) those fish test all of your skills. If I could retire today, however, and just chase fish, my first goal would be to catch a permit on a fly rod. I tried once but that day I lacked luck and on no day did I ever have sufficient skill. To reliably catch permit on the flats, you need to be able to toss 80 feet of fly line into the wind (15-20 knots frequently), accurately and with no more than a single false cast...if that...and be accurate to a couple of feet.. I could sometimes do that on calm day, almost never into the wind.

I think a B&B flyfishing trip to Big Pine Key is called for.
oake

 

[joshua1970]

Josh,
I started my flyfishing in saltwater and so for a year or two, I had no idea what anyone would want with a fly rod smaller than a 9 weight. That was really my passion for several years and I miss it. If you ever get the chance, go to the keys and fish the flats. I've had a Tarpon, Blacktip shark, Barracuda, bonefish and, once, a small yellowfin tuna on my flyrod (the tuna was while tied up to a shrimp boat) those fish test all of your skills. If I could retire today, however, and just chase fish, my first goal would be to catch a permit on a fly rod. I tried once but that day I lacked luck and on no day did I ever have sufficient skill. To reliably catch permit on the flats, you need to be able to toss 80 feet of fly line into the wind (15-20 knots frequently), accurately and with no more than a single false cast...if that...and be accurate to a couple of feet.. I could sometimes do that on calm day, almost never into the wind.

I think a B&B flyfishing trip to Big Pine Key is called for.
oake

Count me in!!!

Alas, I've never been salt water flyfishing - though I got a 9 wt and a 12 wt rod (and a Bauer reel for each) for planned trips that never panned out.... like most, my work schedule tends to interfere far too much with my fishing desires

I've many friends who go for Tarpon annually, i've missed countless Striped Bass trips to Mauntauk and Cape Cod - tho I did hook one on the Delaware while fishing for Rainbows/Browns (right at the seam of the east and west branch where the differing temperatures meet)... thankfully I was using a 5 weight and that fish played me for a good 20-25 minutes til the tippet broke. no way I was landing that fish, but had a blast playing it!! for trout locally I prefer a 7.5' 3 wt for creeks and a 9' 3wt for the larger rivers....(tho I keep a 5 wt in the truck in case its' particularly windy or i'm nymphing or going where i know huge trout lie - ie: the Delaware)

as for hitting the salt water, flats or otherwise, one day I will make it!

also on my fishing bucket list is Alaska for Salmon, Scotland for same, BC for steelhead/salmon, Mongolia for Taimen, South America for huge sea run browns and New Zealand for sight nymph fishing lol

 

[Gordy2]

Smallmouth bass are a blast! I prefer them over largemouth. Absolutely terrible caught in a trout stream as they love trout fry. I've used small spinners, streamer flies, small minnows, hellgrammites and large nightcrawlers. Hook sizes generally in the 6 to 8 range, no bigger. Small plugs can be used too on a light spinning rod and small flatfish on a flyrod. I feel that smallmouths are better tasting than largemouth bass also.