Simpson brushes

[razorboi]

Simpsons never used to shed like that...hardly at all, really.
In fact, no decent, respectable brush should shed bristle like that...or smell like that!
Either they're seconds, defects, rejects, counterfeits, or Simpson has let bottom fall out of their quality control.
The smell leads me to suspect that they might be Chinese knock-offs.
The Chinese are notorious for pongy knots. Apparently, it doesn't bother them.
Simpson still maintain respectable standards on their higher-end products, even employing traditional bristle-dressers for some of their pricier lines, such as the Chubby Super-Badgers...which are essentially made for them now by Vulfix.
But bristle-dressing is a dying profession and most of their brushes are largely "manufactured" in China now.
At the low end, the Chinese have mostly automated the process, simply cutting the knots to shape, hence their prickliness.
Seek out Plisson if you want high-quality European-sourced badger, traditionally graded and exquisitely dressed by hand. But be prepared to pay dearly for this elite line from France's most famous brush-maker.
Mühle in Germany is also known for high quality, but whether they still source European badger, or have moved to Chinese badger like most others, is an open question. Also, their dressing process is now mechanised, except for the silver-tip line, which is still made by hand.
To my mind, the best deals are to be found in vintage N.O.S. products from Kent, Vulfix, Simpson and Rooney.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Used mine again. Lost a bunch more hairs. Gave it a good combing and another wash. Hopefully that’ll deal with it. Lost 200+ hairs so far.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Used mine again. Lost a bunch more hairs. Gave it a good combing and another wash. Hopefully that’ll deal with it. Lost 200+ hairs so far.

I'm combing the loose hairs out of a huge Vulfix silvertip which has been a shedder. I'm just following the advice and methods I learned on this thread. The brush belongs to a member who's allowing me to test drive it to see if I might want to buy it. My SS pet comb came from Aliexpress and is their medium sized version; they're very expensive (I paid $1.67 with shipping).

I know this is a top end Vulfix. I assume everyone knows Vulfix owns Simpson now.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[EclipseRedRing]

Simpsons never used to shed like that...hardly at all, really.
In fact, no decent, respectable brush should shed bristle like that...or smell like that!
Either they're seconds, defects, rejects, counterfeits, or Simpson has let bottom fall out of their quality control.
The smell leads me to suspect that they might be Chinese knock-offs.
The Chinese are notorious for pongy knots. Apparently, it doesn't bother them.
Simpson still maintain respectable standards on their higher-end products, even employing traditional bristle-dressers for some of their pricier lines, such as the Chubby Super-Badgers...which are essentially made for them now by Vulfix.
But bristle-dressing is a dying profession and most of their brushes are largely "manufactured" in China now.
At the low end, the Chinese have mostly automated the process, simply cutting the knots to shape, hence their prickliness.
Seek out Plisson if you want high-quality European-sourced badger, traditionally graded and exquisitely dressed by hand. But be prepared to pay dearly for this elite line from France's most famous brush-maker.
Mühle in Germany is also known for high quality, but whether they still source European badger, or have moved to Chinese badger like most others, is an open question. Also, their dressing process is now mechanised, except for the silver-tip line, which is still made by hand.
To my mind, the best deals are to be found in vintage N.O.S. products from Kent, Vulfix, Simpson and Rooney.

What do you mean by "most of their brushes are largely 'manufactured' in China now"? Are you suggesting that most Simpson brushes are not made in the Isle of Man? Thanks.

 

[Dave-the-rave]

Simpsons claim their brushes are handmade on the Isle of Man.

 

[emwolf]

I have been loving the heck out of the T1, thanks to @Jut for the initial heads up. At about $45 I really think I got an incredible deal. It did lose 2 hairs during my first test lather, after that it's been a wonderful experience. Very soft face feel, but still plenty of backbone to load the hardest of soaps.

 

[OhioBob]

On Simpson’s site they state their brushes will shed for the first few shaves, nothing to panic about.

 

[Squancher79]

even employing traditional bristle-dressers for some of their pricier lines, such as the Chubby Super-Badgers...which are essentially made for them now by Vulfix.
But bristle-dressing is a dying profession and most of their brushes are largely "manufactured" in China now.
At the low end, the Chinese have mostly automated the process, simply cutting the knots to shape, hence their prickliness.

While these prices do seem much too good to be true, do you have any source for this claim '...an most of their brushes are largely "manufactured" in China now'?

Simpsons are not 'made for them now by Vulfix', because one company owns each trademark. All Vulfix and all Simpsons labeled brushes are made by this same company entirely by hands at the same location IOM, and the hair comes from China but not in anything formed beyond kg bundles separated for length and grade. Vulfix bought the Simpsons company in the later 2000s and they have been made in one factory with Vulfix since this time.

They wouldn't be employing a "traditional bristle-dresser" because it is all one same quite small group of fulltime workers (and from what I can see from their many online videos and UK e-magazine features, an all-female staff of brush makers). Maybe they skimp on combing out ['bristle dressing'] least costly units, but shouldn't what matter in any case be how much hair stays behind, and not how much hair goes that wasn't in the bottom? Would you rather the denser brush that did not smell good awhile and shed a bunch at first than the one that smelled fine and was less dense and didn't shed any? Simpsons modern stuff seems excellent density to me, and if I have to have that with the bad initial break in I would still take it because the hardest thing to find is that dense knot of high quality hair.

 

[SliceOfLife]

That's the thing. Even after all the shedding, it still lathers up a storm... but it better stop shedding soon.

 

[SliceOfLife]

5? Uses in, lost two hairs this time. Might finally be wrapping up the shedding.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Opened up a second one I bought to give as a gift... combed it out dry... I Figured about 20-30 hairs lost in that, then washed it. Another 20-30 lost...

Not as much shed as the first, but pretty clearly still a lot of loose hairs. The guy whose pure only lost <5 hairs needs to track down the brushmaker that made his and tell Simpsons to promote him.

Wasn't even gonna mention it but I combed the brush out standing up in my office and let the hairs fall in the carpet... except, I had this stack of black packing material on the floor which caught a number of the hairs. Felt it was a good demonstration of what we're dealing with. This is probably 25-30% of what I combed out from the brush dry and fresh out of the box.


I've always been a pretty big advocate of the quality of Simpson brushes, and I realize these are relatively low-end models, so Simpson doesn't put the best knot-makers on them... but this is a 53gbp ($70ish?) brush on their site. Shedding like this is just ridiculous. I've never seen a single brush shed like this before... and this is the second in a row.

If nothing else, they need to start making their assemblers for these pure brushes run a comb through the knots before setting them.

 

[Jut]

Opened up a second one I bought to give as a gift... combed it out dry... I Figured about 20-30 hairs lost in that, then washed it. Another 20-30 lost...

Not as much shed as the first, but pretty clearly still a lot of loose hairs. The guy whose pure only lost <5 hairs needs to track down the brushmaker that made his and tell Simpsons to promote him.

Wasn't even gonna mention it but I combed the brush out standing up in my office and let the hairs fall in the carpet... except, I had this stack of black packing material on the floor which caught a number of the hairs. Felt it was a good demonstration of what we're dealing with. This is probably 25-30% of what I combed out from the brush dry and fresh out of the box.


I've always been a pretty big advocate of the quality of Simpson brushes, and I realize these are relatively low-end models, so Simpson doesn't put the best knot-makers on them... but this is a 53gbp ($70ish?) brush on their site. Shedding like this is just ridiculous. I've never seen a single brush shed like this before... and this is the second in a row.

If nothing else, they need to start making their assemblers for these pure brushes run a comb through the knots before setting them.

FWIW, I bought a Simpson Special in Pure from West Coast Shaving several years ago, just so I could try out Simpson Pure. That brush shed worse then these. It never stopped shedding. In fact, it put me off of Simpson brushes for several years.

About a year ago, my curiosity got the better of me again when I saw a good deal on a Chubby 1 in Super. I purchased it, and it is a phenomenal brush; no shedding or any issues at all...it started me on Simpson again.

Based on the foregoing, I had kinda came to the same conclusion that you have discussed; that Simpson just doesn't put as much quality control into the low end Pure brushes, or perhaps, that this kind of shedding is just inherent in the Pure hair that they source. My Duke 1 Pure has in fact stopped shedding...but it took awhile.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Yeah, like I said, I've not got much if any experience with Simpson Pure, and I do suspect this is par for the course with them and just a matter of less care being put towards them than the higher grades (I've owned dozens of best and a number of supers in the past)... but that only goes so far. A premium name, that does command a premium price, should not be putting out brushes that shed like this. Yes, they will probably stop after 5-10 shaves... but still, this just demonstrates a lack of care, and a lack of the quality that the Simpson name has associated with it.

It reflects poorly on their much higher quality Best and Super brushes that don't deserve to be associated with this behavior.

And yes, the knots are still whipping up a great lather. And the handles are STELLAR for a brush I paid <$20 for. There are clearly signs of the high quality product that Simpson is known for. But "a brush will shed some loose hairs the first few shaves" doesn't justify releasing a brush that loses a measurable weight of its hair content before stabilizing... when literally a few SECONDS of additional work when making these brushes would prevent this. And that is the big disappointment.

Don't get me wrong... at $20 I'm thrilled with these brushes... but if I'd paid $70, they'd have been returned after that first shave.


Lathered up with both before my shave today:


Duke A (used 3x, combed, used 3x more)... - 8 hairs (Over 200 lost total)
Duke B (combed, used 2x)... - 15 hairs (~70 lost total)

 

[SliceOfLife]

Used them both again today:

Duke A (7 uses and combed) - 21 hairs (~250 lost)
Duke B (3 uses and combed) - 18 hairs (~100 lost)



Starting to think this is a bad batch of hair. about half of the lost hairs are breaks... and I'm not especially hard on my brushes... I've basically never seen a badger hair break before except during the first wash of a VERY old vintage brush.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Here’s what I’m talking about. This is the brush after a couple seconds of a palm lather, and a picture of the hairs that came off of my hand when I gave it a gentle squeeze after rinsing it out.


Broke out the last two I bought just to see if they're all this way.

Duke C (combed and 1 use) - 40 hairs
Duke D (combed and 1 use) - 60 hairs and would be more if I kept rinsing it... was shedding like George Costanzas Rat Hat.

 

[SliceOfLife]

The question now is... if the shedding does not stop... are they worth keeping just for the handles? It's a decent little handle... I'd prefer a 24mm knot size and I'm almost positive these can't take that... maybe 22mm at the most... but they could make nifty little 20mm boar brushes.


edit... actually... just checked. They are 31mm at the narrowest point, so with a 24mm knot, figure 25mm so I've got the tiniest bit of maneuverability... we'd still have 3mm wall thickness... maybe?


Figure I've got just shy of $20 in per brush, another $30 or so for a 24mm Mixed APshaveco knot... $50 total for a really nice mixed brush. A bit spendy for the gifts I wanted... but maybe.

... and if this coronovirus ever ends, I can take them in to the shop and laser etch "PURE BADGER" into "PURE BADGER AND BRISTLE" ... or something to that effect, make them look all professional.

Lol, as I'm thinking about this I'm lightly brushing one across the palm of my hand and more hair is coming out, ridiculous. Just knocked 3 more hairs out of A.

edit: 5 more.

edit: 6.

 

[Ted Danson]

I really appreciate everyone's info on the Duke 1 experience. I too have lost a ton of hairs. I also found the brush to be less than ideal on use (and much smaller than I thought it would be). Given all of that, I am going to gift the brush to my brother who I am hoping to get started in wet shaving. Got a nice little care package for him next time I see him. For me, I saw no reason to work with the Duke 1. I have bought 3 new synthetic brushes in the last week so I have no desire to waste time on something I do not believe I will like.

I will say this much - I love my Simpson Commodore 3 brush and had hoped the Duke 1 would be similar in value to it. I was mistaken. I don't believe the Duke 1 is a bad brush, I just have many others that I would rather use instead.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Shame is I quite like it. It's maybe a hair small, but it's big enough for a shave... and I like the hair... but the shedding is just absurd at this point. I was confident when I started that it was gonna wind down and be fine after 2-3 uses. Now we're pushing 10 on the first one, and it's shedding as much as it ever has after the first use.


btw... 7.

I think I'm gonna let the first 2 get bone dry and weigh them and see if I've lost more than 2 grams of hair yet. They were both 45g dry to start and I've had them down to 44g using them every day.

Did anyone who got the Duke 3 have this crazy shedding or was it maybe just a bad batch of the Duke 1's?

 

[Macbeth]

Got my first Simpson today!
Simpson CHUBBY1 Super Badger!
Shaved and it is perfect in every way. I have a Duke 3 in Best Badger coming this week.
Hope I have good ones!
(Do you have rough palms? LOL!)

 

[ajkel64]

Has anyone contacted Simpson Brushes to let them know of their concerns? Might be better than airing your thoughts out on an open forum.