In your experience, does a steep ("riding the bar") shaving angle *typically* work better (smoother, more efficient) with razors that aggressively bend the blade downward?
Shaving Angle Question
- Thread starter Greg788
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Iridian
Cool and slimy
Hmm... can't really answer this. But you got me thinking, interesting question!
One would believe this is the case, as the blade angle is then around 30-45° when shaving at a steep angle, if the blade would be already bent downward somewhat. In this case the blade would be at this angle while the razor itself not.
I am very interested how others think about this.
One would believe this is the case, as the blade angle is then around 30-45° when shaving at a steep angle, if the blade would be already bent downward somewhat. In this case the blade would be at this angle while the razor itself not.
I am very interested how others think about this.
It will depend on the razor you use. My Rex Ambassador works good with a steep angle. If is use my Blackbird the same way it will be terrible.
Neutral is the home of maximum blade exposure. The wetshavers in the Swiss cantons agree neutrality is a huge plus.
Going towards the cap or comb will usually improve smoothness by reducing blade exposure, but some designs make one side harsher than others (using the safety bar on a RazoRock “German” 37 is much smoother than using its cap).
Going towards the cap or comb will usually improve smoothness by reducing blade exposure, but some designs make one side harsher than others (using the safety bar on a RazoRock “German” 37 is much smoother than using its cap).
I
Island
The Blackbird is a great example of smooth and very efficient two pass razor if used very shallow. Increasing the angle can create a fairly harsh shave. Shallow is more shallow than many people think. But the Overlander is best with a more neutral angle.
I have used the Ti Blackbird for over 2 years now as my sole razor and shave with the 1st angle of the top cap which is I believe to be a 30 degree angle which I also believe is documented in the shave wiki as being a neutral angle!!
If you want the closest shave, you want the most blade exposure that is comfortable for you. As Thom says, that is usually a more neutral angle. Keeping the guard on the face can also help avoid having the skin get bunched up and pinched against the blade edge.
People "riding the cap" are usually getting less blade exposure than the razor can give. They can try to compensate with more pressure, or be content with a shave that is less close. Some people think feeling the blade is a bad thing, but it's really not bad at all, just a preference.
People "riding the cap" are usually getting less blade exposure than the razor can give. They can try to compensate with more pressure, or be content with a shave that is less close. Some people think feeling the blade is a bad thing, but it's really not bad at all, just a preference.
What is your problem, @Halfbeard? You disagree, maybe explain why instead of...
Oh, right, you're the guy who thinks DE razors are the same as shavettes. They're not.
Oh, right, you're the guy who thinks DE razors are the same as shavettes. They're not.
No easy answer. It depends on the razor's head geometry and what feels comfortable to you.
One thing I will say is that don't mimic what 90% of the people on YT are doing. Most of them are using DE razors like they are a hybrid glass scraper/cart razor thing and do the "vacuum cleaner" motion over the same area of the face way too many times.
One thing I will say is that don't mimic what 90% of the people on YT are doing. Most of them are using DE razors like they are a hybrid glass scraper/cart razor thing and do the "vacuum cleaner" motion over the same area of the face way too many times.
You will also need to take into consideration the bevel angle on the blade itself, as they vary between brands.
Fairly easy to find the correct angle -- smooth cutting with minimal sound and no pulling. I've had to use a steeper angle with a "new" FatBoy and a Big Ben blade than usual, but it works much better steeper than I typically use.
Fairly easy to find the correct angle -- smooth cutting with minimal sound and no pulling. I've had to use a steeper angle with a "new" FatBoy and a Big Ben blade than usual, but it works much better steeper than I typically use.
A lot of assumptions... That's why
I really do not know what other people "riding the cap" do. I definitely do not apply pressure. I think that "let razor weight do the job" is too much pressure.
I do skin stretching myself. I don't trust the guard to stretch enough.
OK, that's fair, I guess. I'll try to keep that in mind.
I agree with what I read to be the consensus here: there is no simple answer. A little experimenting will provide the answer for each razor/blade combination.
I stopped watching YT DE razor review videos. Most of them are using every razor the same way, and then they complain if some razors are tugging or not feeling good.
I think most of the people who don't like e.g. the Blackbird is just not using it as the designer intended.
The blade is allowed to flex in one direction, while it is rigid the other direction. Pivoting from the cap vs pivoting from the guard completely changes how the razor shaves.
I don't think it is possible to say that - only that if the blade is bent steeply downwards, it's likely that the angle made by the handle will be steeper, simply because if you lift the handle too much you will pivot the blade away from the skin and no longer actually be shaving. What is happening at the business end depends on the other elements of the razor head geometry.
Some people think that riding the bar is the way to go. Some people think riding the cap is the way to go. AFAIK this is what was historically suggested to newbies - it is what was suggested to me - whilst riding the bar appears to be a more recent phenomenon. At least, it isn't something I have noticed people talking about much until the past 5 years or so, although it's entirely possible that's down to selective attention on my part.
Cap or bar? I increasingly believe that this is more a question of semantics than it is about what people are actually doing with their razors in terms of locking into the optimal shaving angle. Some people start with the bar on their face and pivot up. Some people start with the cap on their face and pivot down. I prefer the latter and have what I consider good reasons for that, but there's always another side to the argument.
Iridian
Cool and slimy
@Goblin very well said! Maybe we are wired differently which angle we try first, but I am quite flexible by now. Though I definitely prefer to hold my razors steep. You will probably love the Smart Helix Apollo (Light) if you start pivoting down from the cap, as this razor is very flexible with the angle. I know it's a bit silly to mention it, they are hard to get right now. But this razor is really very special in this regard.
"Vacuum cleaner motion"? What do you mean by that? (Not saying they don't do it just wondering what you mean.)
I do think optimal angle is different for different razors and contributes to preferences for different razors. You can adjust your technique but I think a lot of people have an angle they like, that they might not even be aware of, and gravitate toward razors that fit that angle preference (assuming they try enough razors).
AimlessWanderer
Remember to forget me!
Please forgive the utterly abysmal sketch. My coordination isn't great today.
Notice how the two red lines (blades) are at different angles. Some razors will present the blade shallower or steeper than others, depending where the cap and comb sit relative to the blade tip. So not all razors will have the same neutral angle. This explains why some blades may work better in one razor than another.
However, in respect of your question, how much the blade is bent is irrelevant. Where the other edge is, makes no significant difference. The more it is bent, the closer the handle will sit to the face, but steep or shallow is not about where the handle is. It's about whether you have contact with blade and cap (with comb lifted), or blade and comb (with cap lifted). Neutral is largely blade contact only.
Where the other edge may be in space, or what angle the handle is pointing out at, should be completely ignored. Focus purely on what's happening on the face. I could have drawn in the handle on that sketch at any angle I wanted. It matters not. Same with the location of the other blade edge. It's irrelevant. All that matters, is what is happening on the skin.
I hope that helps.
Going over the same area over and over after lather has been scraped off (all during a single pass), in sometimes short, rapid strokes like using a vacuum cleaner. And no, I'm not talking about "blade buffing", which is technically something different and gets into iffy territory on its own.
No comment on that brand of razor. Many razors have different head geometry and need to be used a little differently IME.
As for the starting point from where to pivot to find the cutting angle, I don't think it matters. What matters is where you arrive. One can arrive at the same angle from the cap or the bar depending on how much they pivot before beginning to cut. That's with pretty much any razor.
