real vs fake

[tommyguns]

so I was at the mall the other day and I have a pair of oakleys which I have had for a few years now love them they are the oil rigs which I had re lensed to polarized. Seeing as I use these for my everyday sunglasses they are getting a little beat up and I would like some nice going out glasses. So I went to sunglass hut and was looking around and found an great pair of polo's that I liked that I would say looked good on me but lets face it I made them look good. hahah.. They were asking $195 for them which for a nice pair of designer glasses is a normal price. What got to me though was the fact that the pair that was on the shelf had a loose screw on the side so she got a brand new pair from a box of like 100 that were just thrown in a bigger box full of other glasses ( not how I would expect them to treat something so expensive) and looking at them it said made in china. so I passed and walked around the mall and saw one of the knock off glasses stores looked around saw the exact glasses said polo on them and also made in china in the same spot.

now looking at the two I could not tell the difference in the two but it bothers me because for some reason I am a snob when it comes to glasses everything else I really dont care about name brands but is it really worth $12 vs $195 for a pair that I could not tell apart and both made in china.

which also makes me think about quality of these products, I know from my field that one company will make one product and stamp 3 different names on it and sell them all for different prices. so how do you guys feel about the real vs fake issues?

I also will be selling my michael kors watch to buy a much cheaper fossil watch soon and I was trying to hunt down some spare links, found out the company that makes fossil watches also makes the mk watches and use allot of the same parts.

 

[smalltank]

ANY retail item priced..90% of the time can be found for less online..convenience is walking in a shop..and walking out with it right there and then..after paying for it of course

 

[Isaac]

Your scenario describes the business practice of many manufacturers these days. From cars down to glasses things are often rebranded to increase profits. I would think or hope that the brand name glasses might have better glass, uv properties. Other than that, I would think the frames would be about the same. There is currently a watch thread talking about SWATCH making a great deal of internals for high priced watches. The argument is, what is the point of buying high end, when it is filled with what is perceived as low end mechanics.

In the end, it is you the consumer that puts the value on the object. Since it is you, rather than the glasses that look good, you can't loose

 

[tommyguns]

well i have looked online and found them a little cheaper the issue is they make the lens in a green and a blu i cant find the polarized blue for the life of me lol but I usually do a online search before I buy items like that.

 

[cb91710]

ANY retail item priced..90% of the time can be found for less online..convenience is walking in a shop..and walking out with it right there and then..after paying for it of course

+1

But... real vs fake?
It depends.

I'm not impressed with Oakleys and refuse to buy their products after having several frames break above the lens. And these were real... two purchased from the factory, and one a factory replacement for a pair that broke.
So discounting Oakleys, there may (or may not) be quality issues with the fakes. My friend found out in Cabo (after breaking HIS Oakleys) that the "Fakeleys" sold in Cabo are not part-for-part compatible. I was able to make the "fake" earpiece attach by some careful filing, but it would not close... but he just wanted to be able to wear his shades and refused to wear the fake piece, which brings us to....

Optics.

Spend a day out fishing wearing a nice pair of (dare I say Oakleys?) and spend the next Saturday out with a $20 pair of Panama Jacks and your eyes will tell you which is the quality pair.
Now, if you are replacing the lenses with prescription optics, then that becomes a non-issue, and you're back to frame quality and repair parts availability.
It would be a shame to put a pair of $200 lenses into a $50 "fake" frame and not have them fit the "same" fake frame that you pick up a year later to replace a broken set.
OTOH, at least with plastic-framed Oakleys, that still seems to be an issue... including availability. I've owned Eyejackets, Straightjackets, and one other "jacket" style... only the first set was preferred, but they discontinue lines and replace them more often than I change socks. I'm surprised that the GasCan style has been around as long as it has.

 

[tommyguns]

I do understand mark up on items everywhere you go, working for car dealers and friends working for retail stores its enough to make you sick and not want to buy from some of these places. Im just torn between two evils because I do enjoy an nice name brand quality item and do feel I take better care of them when I know that its expensive but for allot of items such as I bought two car chargers the other day for my new phone I will not spend $35 bucks on a charger when you can hit ebay for 5 and its just as good. I like to buy my self a new jersey for foot ball season and I will only go with the official jersey when other then a few minor things I can get knock offs for 1/3 of the price but for me I love having that authentic knowledge/feeling of what im buying but for some reason these glasses really chap my ***

 

[Isaac]

Speaking of Jerseys....I won't ever buy knock off again.

I recently bought a knock off NY Rangers jersey, and when I received it, it nearly strangled me with loose threads. It was more or less a group buy thing, and the organizer said "For that price just cut them off". I was quite upset, and would rather spend the extra cash for something that is made well.

 

[tommyguns]

lens quality I do understand being a big difference in price. For me I have had my oil rigs so long i have not worn cheap sun glasses I have re lensed mine 2wice already though. The only oakleys I have owned are my oil rigs and I love them I cant speak for the other style and how they stand up but I think you are the first person I have heard say they didn't like the product.
But back to my original thought about lens and pricing I do understand the real polo's being of better lens quality but can they really be 180 bucks better? Or is it that you are buying into a name brand, Not to get people mad at me for saying this but like harley davidson love the bike but for the price ehhhhhhh. You are really paying alot to buy into the "club"

 

[cb91710]

Oh I loved the product, which was why I stuck with them for almost 10 years before I ditched them for Gatorz aluminum framed wraps.

But the frames broke. Not only mine, but one of the guys I worked with went through 3 pairs of Eyejackets in 2 years... his broke at exactly the same place as mine. Top of the frame, centered above one of the lenses.
Complained to Oakley and they said that I needed to use 2 hands to put them on and take them off. ?????????!!!!!!!!

Ya, the frames on the newer designs are more stout, and I'm sure the materials have improved (maybe not).

 

[tommyguns]

bahaha they really told you that...nice..

I think what boils down to is the face that you pay for name brand for quality and these companies are def lacking on that. I will be getting these glasses I dont even know why I fight my self about it I will cave...im so weak....

 

[RavenWood]

Years ago, I worked for Best Buy as a manager. TV's would have a 5 to 15% profit margin, but the HDMI cables had a 70 to 90% profit margin, and 'Service Plans' (extended warranties) had a set 85% margin.

To the point; HDMI cables, as most of you know, are almost required for any new tv. We sold Monster cables that ran between 90 and 200 bucks and upwards of 200% margin, and Dynex (Best Buy store brand) for 30 to 100 bucks with 60 to 90% margin. The funny part is they were the exact same cable. Both were produced by Monster, and cross sectioning them, you could not tell a single difference. The sales people were told by vendors that there was better "shielding" in the Monster cables, but the only difference was the packaging.


Sometimes, the only difference really is the price tag and the package. So really, what is 'Fake' and what is 'Real'?

 

[johnmrson]

I always buy quality sunglasses because the money is in the quality of the lenses. Cheap knock-off sunglasses can really hurt your eyes. You don'have to spend a fortune but get ones that have high quality lenses.

 

[little Big feather]

What makes you think the Oakleys were real? They may have been counterfeit too.
It seems that Chinese business is largely based on the counterfeit trade....anything made...they will counterfeit it!!

 

[BrewCommando]

Not exactly 'real vs fake', but my mother in law was telling us the other week about her time working in a pea canning factory. The peas were canned and sealed in plain cans and then stacked. When a company's order came in, a stack would be grabbed and labeled, then sold by grocery stores at vastly different prices depending on whose label was on it. This practice is rife throughout the world and in more industries than you can shake a stick at.

 

[Doc4]

... They were asking $195 for them which for a nice pair of designer glasses is a normal price. ... it said made in china. so I passed and walked around the mall and saw one of the knock off glasses stores looked around saw the exact glasses said polo on them and also made in china in the same spot.

now looking at the two I could not tell the difference in the two but ... is it really worth $12 vs $195 for a pair that I could not tell apart and both made in china.

China's a big place ... well over a billion people ... and you can get anything made there at any quality level ... you just have to be prepared to pay for it if you want 'quality'. I can buy a $20 yixing teapot on e-bay, or a $80 one that is noticeably of better quality, and a $800 one that will blow you away. The $800 one. part of it is I am paying for the artist's name, whereas no one cares about the guy who make the $80 and no one even remembers who made the $20.

But I'd be miffed if I picked up the $800 and found that the artist just signed his name to a $20 pot.

With factory-made stuff that's all too easy ... everyone knows someone who knows someone who worked in a factory where they made stuff that came out of the same machine and got put into two different packages, one that sold for much more than the other. That happens all over, not just China ... America ... Europe ... heck, maybe even Canada.

Maybe there are differences that you can't notice ... you can't "see" 80% UV filtration compared to 100%, but it's darned important for eye health. Maybe not ... maybe it's all marketing.

which also makes me think about quality of these products, I know from my field that one company will make one product and stamp 3 different names on it and sell them all for different prices. so how do you guys feel about the real vs fake issues?

Speaking of Jerseys....I won't ever buy knock off again.

I recently bought a knock off NY Rangers jersey, and when I received it, it nearly strangled me with loose threads. It was more or less a group buy thing, and the organizer said "For that price just cut them off". I was quite upset, and would rather spend the extra cash for something that is made well.

That's what you get for being a Rangers fan.

(I wish this was Walter Sobchak complaining about a knock-off Bruins jersey, but you take what you can get.)

But back to my original thought about lens and pricing I do understand the real polo's being of better lens quality but can they really be 180 bucks better? Or is it that you are buying into a name brand, Not to get people mad at me for saying this but like harley davidson love the bike but for the price ehhhhhhh. You are really paying alot to buy into the "club"

For sure you are paying for brand name and 'image' to some extent ... how much depends on the brand. Some brands, a whole lot!

Going back to your threat title, when people think of "real vs. fake" they think of ... let's say a Rolex watch made in Switzerland compared to a knock-off made in China. Maybe it's a cheap fake (quartz innards, &c) or maybe it's a good fake that could fool experts ... but it's not from the guys who make the real deal ... not even from the same continent.

Now, what we may be seeing is a factory in China that makes "real" items that get branded and sold in legitimate stores for lots of money, and then the same workers in the same factory make "fakes" ... maybe they cut a few corners and make a few more per hour ... maybe the materials are a bit cheaper ... but it's close enough that it's hard to tell the difference ...

"Fake" is now often more about how the licencing corporation (Oakley, Louis Vuitton, whatever) didn't get its enormous mark-up ...

 

[cb91710]

What makes you think the Oakleys were real? They may have been counterfeit too.
It seems that Chinese business is largely based on the counterfeit trade....anything made...they will counterfeit it!!

Please re-read my posts.

Some of these were either purchased at or exchanged at the factory in Orange County.
The fakes are easy to spot side by side, and had the pair that I bought at Sport Chalet been fake, I would not have been able to exchange them at the factory.

 

[cb91710]

Not exactly 'real vs fake', but my mother in law was telling us the other week about her time working in a pea canning factory. The peas were canned and sealed in plain cans and then stacked. When a company's order came in, a stack would be grabbed and labeled, then sold by grocery stores at vastly different prices depending on whose label was on it. This practice is rife throughout the world and in more industries than you can shake a stick at.

That's no secret at all. A lot of companies OEM commodities. Fram (cough cough) oil filters are identical to Pennzoil, MicroGuard, and a number of others... including the plain white Jiffy Lube filter.
The K&N oil filters is a Mobil-1 filter with a nut welded to the top. Champion Labs makes Supertech, AC Delco, and STP (and they're no better than Fram).

But that's not the case with higher end sunglasses. Oakley Gascans are Oakley Gascans and you aren't going to find the same pair on the shelf at CVS for $20. You might find a pair with a similarly styled frame, but even if it appears to be identical, it did not come off of the same production line as Oakley. Just as the earpiece from the pair bought in Cabo would not fit my friend's "real" pair... the fakes and the "real" units are not the same.

 

[cb91710]

Now, what we may be seeing is a factory in China that makes "real" items that get branded and sold in legitimate stores for lots of money, and then the same workers in the same factory make "fakes" ... maybe they cut a few corners and make a few more per hour ... maybe the materials are a bit cheaper ... but it's close enough that it's hard to tell the difference ...

That certainly does happen. A number of firearms optics manufacturers releases memos indicating serial numbers used on counterfeit products from Chinese factories that were licensed to produce their products....

But this goes beyond the US company getting their huge markup... it goes into theft of intellectual property, AND theft of inventory.
Leupold might give their Chinese factory an order for 500 units.
Factory manager orders enough material for 1000 units. He makes 1000, puts legit serial numbers on 500 of them, the other 500 get the same serial number, and go to an eBay seller.
The materials and labor are all billed to the Leupold account.
500 units, pure profit for the factory, paid for by Leupold.

 

[eliev]

Another thing that should be taken into account is that Luxottica makes most of the world's sunglasses, including Oakley and Polo. Oakley are made in the USA, but all the other brands are made in the same factory in northern Italy: Prada, Ray Ban, Vogue...

So your $250 Pradas are made in the same factory as your $120 Ray Bans and your $80 Luxotticas.

There are two kinds of people in terms of sunglasses: people who buy cheap sunglasses and replace them when they eventually break or get lost, and people who invest in more expensive glasses and take better care of them. Either way is fine.

I once met a Manhattan ophthalmologist who was one of the most expensive and reputed in town. She charged hundreds for an appointment and regularly commuted by plane between New York and DC. She bought her reading glasses at CVS.

 

[LuckyR]

Glasses are like everything else, sometimes there is no functional difference between the name brand and the fakes, many times there is a world of difference (vinyl vs leather etc).

In the second case get the fakes if all you are after is faking someone out.

In the first case, if there is no actual difference, it all depends on your personality (not the product itself) since some will forever wonder and worry. It isn't worth the money saved for them, just spend the $ and stop worrying. Otherwise congratulate yourself on a killer pricepoint.