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Questioning the 1898 date on the Zinn Automatic

The recent reawakening of one of our old threads on the Zinn Automatic reminded me of something that's been bugging me for a little while. The common wisdom here and elsewhere seems to be that Gem Cutlery began making the Zinn Automatic in 1898, when Jeremiah Reichard joined up with the Zinns, but before the inclusion of August Scheuber. [Example reference here.]

However, this chronology has never quite made sense to me. For one thing, Scheuber was involved with the Zinns before Reichard, designing pieces for Simon Zinn's metal goods business like this purse clasp patented in 1890 (US436268) or this pocketbook frame patented in 1891 (US466262). But that's a minor niggle, really.

My main problem is the notion that the Zinn Automatic predated Gem's other lather catchers. I can find nothing at all that supports that 1898 date. The only remotely germane patent filing I can find from 1898 is this one of Reichard's that was for the initial Gem design (US616806). There is a subsequent filing from 1899 by Scheuber (US657010) for the modified design with the thumb tab instead of the spring at the back of the blade, but that's also clearly nothing like the Zinn Automatic.

The earliest I can find of anything in the patent record that looks like the Automatic is US881033 for the razor frame, filed on Jan 14, 1905 and issued on Mar 3, 1908; and US960424 for the blades, which was originally filed as part of that same Jan 14, 1905 filing but was then split out and refiled separately on May 23, 1905, and not issued until Jun 7, 1910. Both were filed by Walter J. Smart and assigned to the Zinns, with no apparent involvement from either Reichard or Scheuber.

Here are the drawing pages of both patents:



As you can see, there was a relatively long period of time between the filing of those patents and their issuing. This would match up with the fact that all of the Zinn Automatics that I've ever seen (possibly all of the ones ever made?) carried the "Pat. Appl'd For" stamp rather than a patent date or number.

One other point worth noticing is that the drawing of the razor in the re-filed blade patent looks much more like the Automatic as it was actually produced than the drawing from the earlier razor frame patent. That earlier drawing shows what would appear to be a bottom piece to the clip that holds the blade, almost like the idea that they were working from was a trapped, spring-loaded holder for the blade that effectively turned the disposable blade into the edge of a wedge-shaped assembly within the razor frame. It's possible that they were showing an over-complicated patent drawing to prevent easy duplication or to cover a wider range of claimed features. But it's perhaps more likely that they were still refining the design for production during those months in the first half of 1905.

Digging through the advertising record, I'm also not able to find any mention of the Automatic until 1905, like this three-page spread from the August 25, 1905 issue of Hardware, which appears to be pretty clearly announcing it to retailers as a new product.



So, basically, I'm stumped as to where that 1898 date came from. It seems much more likely to me that they didn't start making the Automatic until 1905 when Reichard and Scheuber had already gone off to make the Yankee/Ever-Ready. Am I missing something obvious here?
 
Can't disagree with any of your research on the patent dates. Rocketman is quite versed in the Zinn's, he owns at least one I believe, maybe he will check in with his thoughts.
 
I dont know if this helps, but this ad dates to Nov 4 1905

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I just bought a copy of Robert Waits' book "Before Gillette: The Quest for a Safe Razor" (2009). It has a section on the Zinn. His research indicates that in 1898 the Zinn family acquired patents from Reichard and Scheuber. Mr. Waits speculates that the Zinn family had provided the financial backing for the founding of Gem Cutlery. According to Waits, the Zinn Automatic didn't debut until mid-1905
 
Can't disagree with any of your research on the patent dates. Rocketman is quite versed in the Zinn's, he owns at least one I believe, maybe he will check in with his thoughts.

I picked up a No. 1 set myself a few months back, which was one of the reasons I started digging more deeply into all this. I was thinking that if anyone would have more information, though, it'd probably be Rocketman. Does anyone have the 411 on D.Irving?

I just bought a copy of Robert Waits' book "Before Gillette: The Quest for a Safe Razor" (2009). It has a section on the Zinn. His research indicates that in 1898 the Zinn family acquired patents from Reichard and Scheuber. Mr. Waits speculates that the Zinn family had provided the financial backing for the founding of Gem Cutlery. According to Waits, the Zinn Automatic didn't debut until mid-1905

My take on what probably happened is very slightly different. I think that Reichard probably came up with the idea for the original Gem apart from any of the others, and approached the Zinns both for their financial backing and for their existing metal fabrication capabilities. Scheuber appears to have been already working with the Zinns at the time, as I mentioned above, and they likely had Reichard get him up to speed on razor technology. I'll save my reasoning behind this for a separate thread since it gets a little "intricate," and I'd rather keep this one on the Automatic.
 
MacDaddy, it is a pleasure to see you sink your teeth into researching a topic. I have learned all sorts of stuff by following your posts - and at times felt further challenged to do some digging on my own! I owe a number of things to your great eye for details. One of my favorite catches of yours was the info sheet on loading a Jr Bar - leave the bar down and slide the blade in. I still shake my head at how simple that concept is. Your avatar pops into my head every time I load one up now. Thnx!

HoosierTrooper - thnx for the confidence regarding the Zinn! I am not sure it is well placed, but......


This confusion on the 1898 date - I think there is a fairly simple explanation.

The Zinn Automatic was very likely first sold in 1905 (as indicated by Waits) and also manufactured for the first time in that year (see Mauro Lorenzi's collection site at http://www.collectorsencyclopedia.com/). Certainly the patent dates and available advertising support this with advertisements such as the ones above in 1905 & 1906.

The references to the Zinn Automatic dating to 1898 likely come from folks referencing the Waits Compendium section on GEMS. The photo for the Automatic is placed in such a way on the page that it gives the impression the Auto was from 1898, but it is really in a text section discussing and dating trademarks. The section discusses trademarks beginning in 1898 and has a heading indicating this. It is a bit confusing at first glance with the photo where it is, and the situation would be helped with a date range being included in the picture description or by altering the photo placement. However, as it sits, when you look at the Compendium the take away impression may easily be that the Zinn Automatic dates from 1898. A simple error by the reader.

This wonderful razor was a response to the Gillette blade design and an attempt to jump on the the thin blade bandwagon. They were not first out the gate with this idea as mentioned in the 'old thread' linked above. However, by the time 1906/07 rolled around GEM and ER were both well on their way to flooding the market with the single edge blade as we know it today. All in all, probably the right decision to discontinue the Automatic!

I'm happy to have one though. Actually, it is the same one Rapperly pictured in the 'old thread' that he got from DIrving, which is now in the Wiki on this site! It is a small world when it comes to Zinn Autos!

MacDaddy - any photos of your No.1?
 
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One of my favorite catches of yours was the info sheet on loading a Jr Bar - leave the bar down and slide the blade in. I still shake my head at how simple that concept is. Your avatar pops into my head every time I load one up now. Thnx!

That's too funny. I think of that same thread every time I load one of mine, too. I did just yesterday, in fact. I had a very nice shave with my Star-branded version of the Junior Bar. :thumbup1:

Here's the post that RocketMan's talking about from our SROTM thread on lather catchers, for anyone else who missed it the first time around.

The references to the Zinn Automatic dating to 1898 likely come from folks referencing the Waits Compendium section on GEMS. The photo for the Automatic is placed in such a way on the page that it gives the impression the Auto was from 1898, but it is really in a text section discussing and dating trademarks. The section discusses trademarks beginning in 1898 and has a heading indicating this. It is a bit confusing at first glance with the photo where it is, and the situation would be helped with a date range being included in the picture description or by altering the photo placement. However, as it sits, when you look at the Compendium the take away impression may easily be that the Zinn Automatic dates from 1898. A simple error by the reader.

This makes a lot of sense. I haven't actually gotten around to buying a copy of Waits yet, but I really probably should.

Since we don't seem to have any reason to be tied to that date, then, I'm going to go correct the wiki page to 1905.

MacDaddy - any photos of your No.1?

Sure thing. I don't seem to have any snapped already, but I'll grab a few in the morning.
 
Ahhhhhh.......... what a beaut!!!!

Avery fine piece of history that! The case is quite nice - and that handle - sweeeet baby!
 
Yep, what a fantastic set!!!
I wonder what that little number underneath the word "ZINN" is all about??

Thanks for sharing!!
 

Luc

"To Wiki or Not To Wiki, That's The Question".
Staff member
Awesome piece of history right here, thanks for sharing!
 
An amazing piece of single edge history Porter.

Ahhhhhh.......... what a beaut!!!!

Avery fine piece of history that! The case is quite nice - and that handle - sweeeet baby!

Awesome piece of history right here, thanks for sharing!
Sleddog and Porter did an excellent job on the research. Waits CD certainly was misleading to some extent and the updated data now seem to be more viable.
 
When was the Zinn automatic razor discontinued? Was it 1909? Also, when did the "Z" appear on the Gem and Gem Junior razors? Was it during the whole period of the Zinn razor production?
 
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