pressure when honing?

[binder]

I need some feedback on my honing technique. All I have heard since I started honing was only the weight of the blade. I have tried that for months and didn't get anywhere. Lately I tried using a fair amount of pressure on a King 1200 and then a 4K Norton. I lighten up some, but still firm pressure and then to the 8K Norton where I use light, but firm pressure. I'm using 2 hands on the blade. If I try to let up the pressure on the hones to where I'm only using very light pressure the blade will get duller.

Do people really use no pressure/weight of blade? I can't seem to get anywhere with that. I can at least get a decent shave off the 8K, but would like to get it sharper if possible. Would appreciate advice on improvement.

Thanks

 

[Seraphim]

Pressure is good

 

[jpcwon]

Pressure is good

+1... I've found that varying the pressure quite a bit going from low to high-grit can really have an impact on keenness. In other words, you'll want to use a little bit of "elbow grease" as you set the bevel on your 1.2k. Once you are sure you have a set bevel using firm pressure (via TPT or shave arm hair), you can then move onto the higher grit stones & go lighter on th pressure.

Too little pressure at bevel-setting will just cause problems as you progress, because the bevel won't be completely set. And on the flip-side, too much pressure at the higher grits can impact keenness negatively.

 

[Gamma]

IME - after 4-5k - any more than light pressure leading to almost zero pressure yields a harsh edge that has to be tamed with pastes. A very light touch combined with too many strokes can cause issues too.

From 1-4k, some pressure is necessary, weight of the blade strokes at 1k are not going to be helpful in the process of removing steel to set the bevel.

Too much pressure at the 1-4k stages can flatten the spine quickly, and it can flex the blade on a full hollow to the point where the edge is up off the stone. Continuing to hone like that will bring a wide steep bevel that may be problematic.

So - pressure is good, when it's handled correctly. Terms like light, medium, firm, etc are all somewhat subjective. Objectively - the goal is to learn how much pressure and torqueing is ok, and how to lighten it up to refine the edge to where you like it.

 

[Bayamontate]

IME - after 4-5k - any more than light pressure leading to almost zero pressure yields a harsh edge that has to be tamed with pastes. A very light touch combined with too many strokes can cause issues too.

From 1-4k, some pressure is necessary, weight of the blade strokes at 1k are not going to be helpful in the process of removing steel to set the bevel.

Too much pressure at the 1-4k stages can flatten the spine quickly, and it can flex the blade on a full hollow to the point where the edge is up off the stone. Continuing to hone like that will bring a wide steep bevel that may be problematic.

So - pressure is good, when it's handled correctly. Terms like light, medium, firm, etc are all somewhat subjective. Objectively - the goal is to learn how much pressure and torqueing is ok, and how to lighten it up to refine the edge to where you like it.

Agreed.

I'm from the "normal" pressure on everything and going to a lower grit or faster stone or nagura if the razor needs more work on the bevel or correction is needed. The thing is to determine what "normal" means to you.

 

[Wid]

Pressure is a good thing. I use a fair amount in the lower grits but the higher up the grit the lighter the pressure I use. At the the end it's as little as I can get away with. That's not always possible when dealing with a warped blade or other troublesome edges, at least how I do it. Sometime torquing the blade with some pressure in necessary on some of the funky ground or warped blades. .

 

[gumbo]

I'll just echo what others have said, the higher the "K" the lighter the pressure. But it's far more important to remove steel at 1k then to be ninja-esque in your negative pressure at the higher grits.

 

[Doc226]

What ^ said.

Use as much as needed lower grits, lighter in the higher grits but still enough to remove steel.

Be careful with really thin grinds and larger blades, the flexing can really mess you up. With wedges and near wedges I think you can use a good amount of pressure even in the finishing stages.

 

[Seraphim]

Here's an example of pressure:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/103616-Honing-pressure-clear-example?highlight=driveway

 

[mikeadams]

I've noticed with my naniwas that it takes more pressure than I expected to get the edge I want. Even so, like others have said, as you work up the higher grits, lighter pressure is desirable.

Steve

 

[Alum of Potash]

Here's an example of pressure:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/103616-Honing-pressure-clear-example?highlight=driveway

Interesting link Seraphim. Thanks. As you remark there, I also tend to start out a little bit heavy with each stone, then lightening up on it towards the end. This is especially true with Arkansas stones.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

This is especially true with Arkansas stones.

Does this apply to each stone in the progression or for the totality of the progression?

 

[Alum of Potash]

Does this apply to each stone in the progression or for the totality of the progression?

Each stone in the progression--the relative pressure from the start perhaps easing a bit as you progress. From my experience, the Arkansas stones like a bit of pressure, just so long as every departing stroke is met with a corresponding return stroke, or vice-versa. I suppose that if we were to follow Seraphim's chalk analogy here, this would be akin to a kind of pyramid honing, since the initial pressure strokes with each stone would create deeper scratch patterns, leading to lighter ones at the end, with each deeper-to-lighter scratch pattern overlapping and diminishing as one progressed through the stones.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Thanks for the clarification. I have a the series of ark's for my knives but I never nailed down something that was capable for shaving.

 

[honed]

What ^ said.

Use as much as needed lower grits, lighter in the higher grits but still enough to remove steel.

Be careful with really thin grinds and larger blades, the flexing can really mess you up. With wedges and near wedges I think you can use a good amount of pressure even in the finishing stages.

He isn't called The Doctor of Mojo for nothing.
Very sound advice given right there.
Pressure is both good & bad, the trick is to apply it right. Practice makes perfect.

 

[binder]

IME - after 4-5k - any more than light pressure leading to almost zero pressure yields a harsh edge that has to be tamed with pastes. A very light touch combined with too many strokes can cause issues too.

How many light strokes would you suggest to finish with an 8K hone?

Thanks everyone for replies

 

[Gamma]

That's a trick question.
I don't consider a Norton 8k a finishing stone or razors honed on an 8k to be 'finished'.
But that's just me.

Stroke count was never part of my learning.
Ask me how many strokes I used to finish last night's edge - I'll say 'I have no idea'.

So - it's very hard for me to say how many strokes someone else would need - but I'd guess that you are looking at anywhere from 10-40 strokes.
Less is more, and being successful with fewer strokes on higher-grit stones means being more successful with the lower-grit stones.






if the 8k is your final stone - you can monitor the edge's keen-ness with a shave test.

Do a set of 10 laps and test - do another 10 and test.