Potential TTO issue with 1st Gen British Aristocrat (Open Comb)?

[BelfastBlade]

Hello folks!

Let me just start with saying I'm unfamiliar with these open comb British Aristocrats, so I don't know what to expect with them!

I just picked one up recently so I'm new to them. I'm exploring different models and generations of vintage Gillettes as I go along. I've not used one of the open comb Aristocrats before so I've nothing to compare it to. I do have later Brit Aristocrats but as the later (third and fourth) generations have the different TTO system its no help.

Anyways, I'm wondering if there's maybe some kind of little flaw/issue with the TTO mechanism on it or if something is broken or abnormal.

It seemed a bit.. maybe not the smoothest, but I'd heard someone say or read a post somewhere that earlier two generations TTOs maybe weren't quite as smooth as the later ones so I didn't pay much attention to it.

This is kind of difficult to explain but when I fully open the razor/fully unscrew the TTO knob, the knob doesn't seem to be "held in place". It seems to be able to move up and down, you notice it when holding the razor handle steady.. it pushes up and down.. when moving the TTO knob the "frame" moves up and down with it.

So, to simplify, when it's unscrewed.. the knob can move back, and if you push it up the frame(?) on the razor head rises with it.

If I invert the razor or push the TTO knob up until it's flush with the handle, it seems to tighten up a lot smoother. Which makes me wonder if maybe if the knob is indeed supposed to be held in place some way and there's an issue with it.

I mean it shaves fine when tightened up, of course.. just that the TTO seemed finicky when the razor is opening/opened as described above and I was simply wondering is that how these are or is the TTO knob supposed to be kept solidly in place and flush against the part where it joins the handle at all times.. and that you can't pull/push it at all when loosened/opened?

I guess I really don't know if this is normal or not as I haven't had one before! It did strike me as a bit odd.. and the more I think about it, it doesn't seem to be be correct, but I just don't know. Unfortunately I haven't another to compare it with.. I've never even used one of this model before.

I'm sure there's plenty of folks on here who are more familiar with this model who could diagnose it in a second! So my first step is to find out if this is normal or not!

If there is some flaw on it or something is broken, is there a way to fix it? And if so what actually holds the TTO in place at all times (I mean, if it is supposed to be held in place at all!)

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks in advance!

 

[Garry357]

I’m not familiar with this Gillette model. Can you post a photo.
from your description the razor may have a little “handle drop”
If this is the issue then it can be fixed quite easily by recrimping.

 

[Joezamboni]

It sounds like the typical knob drop. The early mechanisms are pretty similar to their US counterparts.

 

[creamgravy]

Post in thread 'Gillette Aristocrat 1936'

Gillette Aristocrat 1936

Hello, I have this problem: the razor does not open unless you press from below. Is this the norm or not?

www.badgerandblade.com

Best recent reply on the issue

 

[BelfastBlade]

Thanks to everyone for all the responses on this!

I had another look at it today.. there seems to be a tiny little bit of play when the TTO knob is partially unscrewed, like when the doors are half open. You can push it up and down.. but literally only maybe a millimetre or two. Is there supposed to be any play in that knob at all or is it supposed to be stay against the end of the handle and no move in it?

When closed, it's sound and the knob screws up snugly.

When I hold the razor upright, and hold the handle and place the slightest little bit of push on the TTO when screwing it, it works more smoothly.

I'd also been reading up on "knob drop" and saw some pictures of others which seem to have the TTO knobs dropped considerable amounts. If that knob drop the issue with mine, it doesn't seem to be dropped any more than the slightest fraction, but I suppose even that could cause the TTO mechanism to be a thousand of an inch out and allow for that little bit of play and interfere with the smoothness of the TTO when operating.

I suppose the question now, whether to leave it be or try and improve it. I suppose I'm kind of fussy or somewhat of a perfectionist so even little things like that will irk me. As it is, it's perfectly usable when tightened up.. it's just a matter of pushing the knob up and eliminating that 1mm-ish bit of play when putting a blade in.

I've been looking at guides for fixing knob drop also. With wires, pipe clamps etc. I'm not even sure that will remedy this.. as the knob hasn't truly dropped.. there just seems to be a minor amount of play in it which is affecting the smooth of the operation.

With "knob drop" is the knob still dropped/loose even when the razor is fully tightened? Of is it only during the unscrewing of the TTO? See mine tightens up okay which makes me wonder. I've saw pictures of other Aristocrats with "knob drop" and the knob seems to be hanging down even when the razor is tightened up. I'll have to do more research! I'll not jump into anything anyways as I don't want to make anything worse!

 

[Garry357]

Once you close and tighten the doors the handle will be secure, you should have no “handle/knob drop”.
if you do try to fix the hand crimp, don’t use a Hammer and screwdriver as some internet guides suggest.
it’s quite an easy fix with either wire or a bulldog clip wire then a pair of pliers, tape the handle to prevent grip mark damage.

 

[nemo]

if you do try to fix the hand crimp, don’t use a Hammer and screwdriver as some internet guides suggest.

I have to agree, I've seen razors that savages have tried to fix with hammers and screwdrivers.
Hard to believe what some folks recommend.
I use a heavy copper wire that fits nicely in the groove and a tiny hose clamp.

 

[Garry357]

I have to agree, I've seen razors that savages have tried to fix with hammers and screwdrivers.
Hard to believe what some folks recommend.
I use a heavy copper wire that fits nicely in the groove and a tiny hose clamp.

I've seen your method, great recommendation.

 

[nemo]

I've seen your method, great recommendation.

It works well because you can gradually sneak up on it to make sure it isn't too tight.

 

[Dyllern]

Once you close and tighten the doors the handle will be secure, you should have no “handle/knob drop”.
if you do try to fix the hand crimp, don’t use a Hammer and screwdriver as some internet guides suggest.
it’s quite an easy fix with either wire or a bulldog clip wire then a pair of pliers, tape the handle to prevent grip mark damage.

I have to agree, I've seen razors that savages have tried to fix with hammers and screwdrivers.
Hard to believe what some folks recommend.
I use a heavy copper wire that fits nicely in the groove and a tiny hose clamp.

I have had pretty good success with using a hammer and screwdriver before but it's not without risk. I have also tried to use a kind of wire before, but I wasn't able to tighten it enough to the point where it could actually manipulate the metal in the groove enough to result in a successful re-crimp of the area.

I think I can imagine your setup, but do you mind providing a few pictures showing it?

Can you really tighten the tiny hose clamp enough by manually using a screwdriver or are you using a drill?

Luckily drop-knob isn't a big problem with the TTO razors all the time, but I have come across it enough to where it can become frustrating to fix.

If I can find a more optimal solution that consistently can make the process easier then I'm all ears. I doubt I won't run into another razor in the future that needs to be fixed

 

[BelfastBlade]

Once you close and tighten the doors the handle will be secure, you should have no “handle/knob drop”.
if you do try to fix the hand crimp, don’t use a Hammer and screwdriver as some internet guides suggest.
it’s quite an easy fix with either wire or a bulldog clip wire then a pair of pliers, tape the handle to prevent grip mark damage.

See what puzzles me is that my razor tightens up perfectly. Most of the knob drop I see in pictures and videos, the knob is visibly dropped down even when screwed up. On mine, once it's tightened as you mention, there is no knob drop whatsoever.

There's just a few mm play when unscrewing it which seems to be interfering with the TTO mechanism and making it struggle to operate smoothly unless pushed up to remove that play. But like I say, once it's tightened.. it's fine.

Even when it's fully unscrewed there's not the largest amount of drop.. there's literally maybe a mm or so space where the top of the knob touches the bottom of the handle. So I'm not really sure it even is what's generally seen to be knob drop.

I've been looking at them disassembles and I'm trying to think about it, now I'm wondering if there's maybe a little wear on the top side of the internal edge/recess that the handle groove sits in that holds the TTO knob on.. which is just giving that extra bit of play during unscrewing of the TTO and causing it to come down that mm or two. The recess seems to be holding the TTO barrel securely otherwise so I'm not sure that crimping will remedy it.

The only time there's any drop at all is when opening the razor and it's very minimal. I've compared it to other similar TTOs I have.. I've a Senator which seems to be a fairly similar mechanism.. it seems to work more or less similarly apart from the fact there's not that same slack when unscrewing the razor.

Also, sorry for lack of pictures as I'm without a phone at the moment. I don't think they'd really show anything that as it essentially looks like a perfect razor apart from when you unscrew it, as noted only then the knob drops maybe a mm or so. You can just about see the inside/narrower part of the barrel that inserts into the handle..

Don't worry I wouldn't use any method without lots of research. I don't want it to turn into one of those "I wish I'd have left it alone.. it was fine to begin with" situations like in the comedy Father Ted where he gets a little ding in his car and ends up completely ruining it trying to fix it.

It's a very good scene:

 

[nemo]

Most of the knob drop I see in pictures and videos, the knob is visibly dropped down even when screwed up.

Even with the worst case drop problem, the knob goes up tightly against the barrel when doors are closed.
Dropped when closed is impossible, at least all I've seen (American-style TTO).

 

[BelfastBlade]

Even with the worst case drop problem, the knob goes up tightly against the barrel when doors are closed.
Dropped when closed is impossible, at least all I've seen (American-style TTO).

Ah, okay I think I'd maybe gotten confused. I'd been watching that many videos and looking at so many pictures the past two days my mind is going. I guess it must be a small case of the knob drop then. I'll see what can be done about it. Thank you.

 

[Garry357]

Here are a few photos of the technique I use.

The bulldog paper clips come in different sizes; you need one that the spring fits the crimp recess snugly.
Once in position use the plyers to re-crimp the handle. Do it about 6–8-times turning the handle.

 

[Wombat ESQ]

Hello folks!

Let me just start with saying I'm unfamiliar with these open comb British Aristocrats, so I don't know what to expect with them!

I just picked one up recently so I'm new to them. I'm exploring different models and generations of vintage Gillettes as I go along. I've not used one of the open comb Aristocrats before so I've nothing to compare it to. I do have later Brit Aristocrats but as the later (third and fourth) generations have the different TTO system its no help.

Anyways, I'm wondering if there's maybe some kind of little flaw/issue with the TTO mechanism on it or if something is broken or abnormal.

It seemed a bit.. maybe not the smoothest, but I'd heard someone say or read a post somewhere that earlier two generations TTOs maybe weren't quite as smooth as the later ones so I didn't pay much attention to it.

This is kind of difficult to explain but when I fully open the razor/fully unscrew the TTO knob, the knob doesn't seem to be "held in place". It seems to be able to move up and down, you notice it when holding the razor handle steady.. it pushes up and down.. when moving the TTO knob the "frame" moves up and down with it.

So, to simplify, when it's unscrewed.. the knob can move back, and if you push it up the frame(?) on the razor head rises with it.

If I invert the razor or push the TTO knob up until it's flush with the handle, it seems to tighten up a lot smoother. Which makes me wonder if maybe if the knob is indeed supposed to be held in place some way and there's an issue with it.

I mean it shaves fine when tightened up, of course.. just that the TTO seemed finicky when the razor is opening/opened as described above and I was simply wondering is that how these are or is the TTO knob supposed to be kept solidly in place and flush against the part where it joins the handle at all times.. and that you can't pull/push it at all when loosened/opened?

I guess I really don't know if this is normal or not as I haven't had one before! It did strike me as a bit odd.. and the more I think about it, it doesn't seem to be be correct, but I just don't know. Unfortunately I haven't another to compare it with.. I've never even used one of this model before.

I'm sure there's plenty of folks on here who are more familiar with this model who could diagnose it in a second! So my first step is to find out if this is normal or not!

If there is some flaw on it or something is broken, is there a way to fix it? And if so what actually holds the TTO in place at all times (I mean, if it is supposed to be held in place at all!)

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks in advance!

For one mm of drip/droop/drop I read you are way over thinking/analyzing/worrying, when simply pushing it back up and crimping will solve all your worries, even leaving it alone is no big hassle except for in your brain
there are some good suggestions re; crimping above

simple nut and bolt theory, hold the bolt in the left hand, upside down
thread on the nut
screw it a bit, it is sloppy
screw it up tight, it is tight
apply same theory to razor, it IS a nut and bolt

yes, it is worn in some way, you cant screw brass against brass for ever with no wear
it is a round crimp shoved in a square groove [round peg in square hole] that simply hold stuff together.

for reference this is my set of crimpers [i would really like to know what mr gillette used?] made by drilling out the jaws to the approved round crimp minus 1.582mm then bevelled by grinding with oversize round stone, job done
grab crimpers squeeze the living life out handle in 10 to 20 seconds ... the handles of the crimper bottom out and spring back on release so no chance of binding up the crimp in the razor.

 

[Garry357]

For one mm of drip/droop/drop I read you are way over thinking/analyzing/worrying, when simply pushing it back up and crimping will solve all your worries, even leaving it alone is no big hassle except for in your brain
there are some good suggestions re; crimping above

simple nut and bolt theory, hold the bolt in the left hand, upside down
thread on the nut
screw it a bit, it is sloppy
screw it up tight, it is tight
apply same theory to razor, it IS a nut and bolt

yes, it is worn in some way, you cant screw brass against brass for ever with no wear
it is a round crimp shoved in a square groove [round peg in square hole] that simply hold stuff together.

for reference this is my set of crimpers [i would really like to know what mr gillette used?] made by drilling out the jaws to the approved round crimp minus 1.582mm then bevelled by grinding with oversize round stone, job done
grab crimpers squeeze the living life out handle in 10 to 20 seconds ... the handles of the crimper bottom out and spring back on release so no chance of binding up the crimp in the razor.

View attachment 1883630

This is a great improvised tool. I may do this if I need to fix a razor again.
As we know fixing handle drop is a very rare occasion.

 

[Hair Scraper]

Here are some photo’s of a ‘47 Super-Speed that I got recently with severe knob drop. I think a previous owner in the last 77 years tried to pull the knob out of the handle. The crimped ring on the handle wasn’t holding the knob and stem up inside the handle.



Once I was able to de-scale the screw head and remove it, (they’re left-hand threaded,) I cleaned the scale off the knob and inside the handle.



Once reassembled, I used the wire off of a binder clip in the crimp ring to squeeze the ring down to hold the knob in place. It’s now adjusted like my other Super-Speeds from that era, and an excellent shaver I might add.

 

[Wombat ESQ]

This is a great improvised tool. I may do this if I need to fix a razor again.
As we know fixing handle drop is a very rare occasion.

DANG!! I knew I should have patented that it also comes in handy for chopping off the cap stud, them there holes like marked 10/32 are threaded on one jaw, plain on the other jaw, mini bolt cutters that don't burr the threads. Also handy for chopping up brass tube and especially straights pins ... that brass might only be 1.5/1.6mm but side cutters are 'ich' to clean up the cut.
Is a multi tool adapted for razor repair on many levels and a thousand other uses, like 144,000 miles of string, in 3 inch lengths, useful stuff, string.

there you go using that word 'rare' yes, one razor or two, I'd 'bash' 'em with hammer, Not! but on the rare occasion you buy in bulk and have six or eight that just need a bit of tightening or you pick up one thats been in the cabinet for 25/30 years, unloved, a one stop tool makes life a breeze to nip them up tight again

Now you've posted your picture, that illustrates the crimp shape and recess it fits in perfectly, round peg in square[almost] hole.