nagura, slurry and what's going on there

[bridger berdel]

I can see 3 possibilities.

1) nagura and hone are the same rock. they abrade each other equally. the hone will tend toward flatter,the nagura will get smaller and both will generate slurry.

2) nagura is harder than the hone. the nagura will wear very little, the hone will tend toward flatter and the slurry will be generated by the hone.

3) nagura is softer than the hone. the nagura will wear quickly, the hone won't be flattened by it and the slurry will be generated by the nagura.



any of these could work.

with 1, the slurry would be plentiful and fast.
with 2, the same nagura could be used with several hones.
with 3, the hone could be very hard, last almost forever, and use up nagura. different nagura on the same hone would produce different edges.

comments?

 

[Kentos]

4-

Both hone and nagura are hard, slurry is thin, and both last forever.

I think your assumptions make sense.

 

[bridger berdel]

4 could work for a very fine, very slow final finishing step.

 

[American1911]

I get better results when the slurry comes up by the act of honing.

 

[global_dev]

Is no.2 common with a nagura other than a DMT ?

 

[Gamma]

1) nagura and hone are the same rock. they abrade each other equally. the hone will tend toward flatter,the nagura will get smaller and both will generate slurry.

Abrasion isn't going to be necessarily equal just because the Tomo is cut from the same rock. Flatness is another issue.

2) nagura is harder than the hone. the nagura will wear very little, the hone will tend toward flatter and the slurry will be generated by the hone.

A harder Tomo will bring up more slurry from the Awase than itself usually. How the Tomo is used will depend on whether or not the Awase is 'flattened' - this is true of how any Tomo is used though.

3) nagura is softer than the hone. the nagura will wear quickly, the hone won't be flattened by it and the slurry will be generated by the nagura.

The Tomo will wear more quickly, and most but not all slurry left behind could/will/might be from the Tomo - see above for the flatness issue.

with 1, the slurry would be plentiful and fast.

Not necessarily - depends on the stone.

with 2, the same nagura could be used with several hones.

Any Nagura can be used with several stones.

with 3, the hone could be very hard, last almost forever, and use up nagura. different nagura on the same hone would produce different edges.

Different Nagura can resolve a different edge and they're intended to be 'worn' for the most part. A very hard stone can last a long time, but a thicker soft stone can outlast a thin harder stone - but it depends on how it's used. A lot depends on the stone, the Tomo, and the user. The end results from different combinations of Tomo/Awase are not always expected.
There is no 'formula' or recipe to live by, and hardness is only one quality to factor into the equation.

 

[mainaman]

You need to use slurry stone that is softer than the base stone.
A good finishing stone should be harder than any nagura, and for good results you need softer than the base tomonagura.

 

[Disburden]

I really need a fine but softer tkmo nagura for my nakayama maruichi asagi.

 

[Gamma]

I really need a fine but softer tkmo nagura for my nakayama maruichi asagi.

Maybe I'm mistaken - but I thought you were selling it?

 

[Disburden]

I was...the deal fell through so I am keeping it.
I am relieved.

 

[Gamma]

Oddly - I'm relieved also. That's a beautiful stone. You should have it forever. Cheers!

 

[bridger berdel]

Abrasion isn't going to be necessarily equal just because the Tomo is cut from the same rock. Flatness is another issue.

A harder Tomo will bring up more slurry from the Awase than itself usually. How the Tomo is used will depend on whether or not the Awase is 'flattened' - this is true of how any Tomo is used though.



The Tomo will wear more quickly, and most but not all slurry left behind could/will/might be from the Tomo - see above for the flatness issue.



Not necessarily - depends on the stone.



Any Nagura can be used with several stones.



Different Nagura can resolve a different edge and they're intended to be 'worn' for the most part. A very hard stone can last a long time, but a thicker soft stone can outlast a thin harder stone - but it depends on how it's used. A lot depends on the stone, the Tomo, and the user. The end results from different combinations of Tomo/Awase are not always expected.
There is no 'formula' or recipe to live by, and hardness is only one quality to factor into the equation.

so the answer is- it depends. why does this not surprise me.

re: tending toward flat- with the nagura you can do things you can't do with the blade, like work over the corners and concentrate on the areas that tend to be left high as the stone wears. technique, for sure, but it seems self evident to me to do this, and a side benefit of generating a slurry.

 

[global_dev]

You take the nagura to the blade? Actually i reread it again and i imagine you are still talking about taking the nagura to the base stone.