More questions from the new guy

[Shave Ready]

I'm about 30 shaves in on this SR journey, and took delivery of a new Dovo Bismarck for Christmas (thanks sweetie!). I haven't shaved since Christmas Eve, and decided that today was the day to put her to the test. I've been using a 5/8 Genco I bought from Whipped Dog, and have made pretty good progress - have actually stopped using the safety razor for cleanup!

So to recap: 30 shaves under my belt with the WD razor, a new Bismarck from Jarrod at The Superior Shave, and 5 days of growth that needs to be mowed down.

So the questions: I went through 4 complete WTG passes, and still had patches of thick growth that I just could not remove. I had to do a WTG/XTG pass with the safety razor to clean up. These were not areas that I normally have inordinate difficulty with, so I'm wondering what happened? I'm inclined to believe that the razor was shave ready. Does a 5 day growth expose weaknesses in technique, or does it require different technique than shaving a 1-2 day growth?

I expected to require multiple WTG passes to reduce the beard before going XTG - I thought 2 passes - was that unrealistic for this amount of growth?

 

[Gamma]

Try again tomorrow to see how it goes.
Thicker heavier beards require more work - the hairs are thicker in places and it's possible that additional growth started so you can have a greater number of both shorter and longer whiskers to deal with. For me - shaving 2 days of growth is way different than dealing with a 1 day crop.
Plus - 30 days of practice is a great start but more than likely you have a good way to go before saying your technique is down pat.
Another thing - for heavy growth like 2+ days of growth I like to use a heavy grind. Seems to be more efficient than a full hollow.
But that could just be my own personal delusion.

 

[Shave Ready]

Thanks Gamma. I kind of hope that it is your personal delusion - I don't need a reason to get another SR! But just in case...what would you consider to be an ideal grind for denser growth?

 

[Kentos]

I don't have a particularly dense or stainless steel wire type beard, but with a nice sharp blade I don't add extra passes, though there may be more strokes for that WTG pass.

I prefer wedges and kamisori grinds myself. Extra hollows feel too crinkly on my skin, and for some reason I get a tad more irritation from them.

Where did the Dovo come from?

 

[Shave Ready]

Thanks Kentos. The razor came from The Superior Shave. I wanted something different than the 5/8 full hollow Genco, so I selected several 6/8 full hollows for my wife to choose from. I figured after trying out different sizes, I would start looking at different grinds.

 

[Gamma]

I don't know that there's an ideal grind for heavier growth, I have 1/2 and 3/4 hollows, as well as a couple of near wedges and they all wipe out heavy growth very well. Framebacks and Kamis are other stiff blades that seem to plow through tough shrubbery effortlessly.

But - I cleaned up the thicket on my face today with a full hollow. Took a bit more work but it got done.

 

[Legion]

Did Jarrod hone the razor, or did it have the factory edge?

Personally I need to do at least a XTG pass to get a smooth shave, but I find the days when I shave a three day or more growth off, are the days when it is easiest to get BBS. I'm not sure why.

 

[Shave Ready]

Did Jarrod hone the razor, or did it have the factory edge?

Personally I need to do at least a XTG pass to get a smooth shave, but I find the days when I shave a three day or more growth off, are the days when it is easiest to get BBS. I'm not sure why.

Sorry for the delayed response. I assumed that it would come shave ready, since it was advertised as same on his web site. My wife did not specifically ask for it to be honed prior to shipment.

By the way, I do not want to imply anything about Jarrod's service here, as I recognize that I am new to this and may have misread or misunderstood something along the way.

I should have checked the sharpness prior to the first shave, but again being a new guy I don't always trust my ability to check sharpness. I did just check it now, and was unable to pop hairs via HHT, something my WD razor does fine. I was also unable to cut arm hair - the razor just pushed the hair out of the way (again, something that my WD razor can do). I stropped the Bismarck with 50 laps on the strop, and saw no improvement.

Is it possible that my 4 passes WTG could completely wreck an edge? I keep going back to the fact that my WD razor is still going after 30ish shaves (not to mention that it has been my learning razor - shaving AND stropping), so I am just at a loss here.

 

[Wid]

Hard saying if or how the edge could have degraded. If in doubt contact Jarrod and see what he has to say. Short of that get it honed so you know it is truly "shave ready".

 

[global_dev]

I'm about 30 shaves in on this SR journey, and took delivery of a new Dovo Bismarck for Christmas (thanks sweetie!). I haven't shaved since Christmas Eve, and decided that today was the day to put her to the test. I've been using a 5/8 Genco I bought from Whipped Dog, and have made pretty good progress - have actually stopped using the safety razor for cleanup!

So to recap: 30 shaves under my belt with the WD razor, a new Bismarck from Jarrod at The Superior Shave, and 5 days of growth that needs to be mowed down.

So the questions: I went through 4 complete WTG passes, and still had patches of thick growth that I just could not remove. I had to do a WTG/XTG pass with the safety razor to clean up. These were not areas that I normally have inordinate difficulty with, so I'm wondering what happened? I'm inclined to believe that the razor was shave ready. Does a 5 day growth expose weaknesses in technique, or does it require different technique than shaving a 1-2 day growth?

I expected to require multiple WTG passes to reduce the beard before going XTG - I thought 2 passes - was that unrealistic for this amount of growth?

i think after 4 passes, based on your stated progress, would appear too many passes not to be very close to BBS. 5 days is enough, but not really a lot IMHO. i can get very close to BBS in 2 after a 5 day beard.

30 shaves isn't insignificant, but it's hard to say whats going on. i would think your dovo was finished with a coticule, while the genco was likely finished synthetic. the coticule edge is notorious for being a different feel than synthetic.

though that difference shouldn't manifest in an edge unable to shave with… did you strop the dovo before using?

 

[Shave Ready]

Thanks for the feedback, gents. I did not strop the razor before the first shave. I am in contact with Jarrod now, who has offered a very reasonable hypothesis that the edges simply were not beveled properly, leading to an edge that passed the usual tests but degrade very quickly with use. He has also offered to cover the cost of having the razor honed, so I am working out the details of that with him now.

Thanks again for your help on this. I'm glad to know that my difficulties with this razor were probably not due to technique. I have also gained the knowledge that a non-shave-ready razor can still shave, just not very comfortably. I know that seems like a no-brainer, but I had previously thought of straight razor edges as a binary function - it either shaved or it didn't. I now see that it is more like my experience with DE blades; they all shaved, but there is a range of efficiency and comfort depending on the manufacturer.

 

[global_dev]

. I know that seems like a no-brainer, but I had previously thought of straight razor edges as a binary function - it either shaved or it didn't. I now see that it is more like my experience with DE blades; they all shaved, but there is a range of efficiency and comfort depending on the manufacturer.

IMHO, i don't think that is exactly right... i think it has more to do with the way a straight is honed/finished, vs the manufacturer in regards to efficiency and comfort... that is why most will agree that any properly prepared appropriate steel will work great regardless if it's a no-name solingen or a dubl duck. I think the grinds (like the "flexibility of a extra hollow) may play a part, but not really the manufacturer.

I think the DE edge is a different issue, based on bevels and coatings...

 

[Shave Ready]

IMHO, i don't think that is exactly right... i think it has more to do with the way a straight is honed/finished, vs the manufacturer in regards to efficiency and comfort... that is why most will agree that any properly prepared appropriate steel will work great regardless if it's a no-name solingen or a dubl duck. I think the grinds (like the "flexibility of a extra hollow) may play a part, but not really the manufacturer.

I think the DE edge is a different issue, based on bevels and coatings...

Aye, it was an imperfect analogy - made sense in my head but didn't translate well to the written word. Thanks for clearing it up!

 

[gimpochin]

i have learned that a "shave ready"razor is not shave ready for me. good luck.

 

[California Cajun]

I'm about 30 shaves in on this SR journey, and took delivery of a new Dovo Bismarck for Christmas (thanks sweetie!). I haven't shaved since Christmas Eve, and decided that today was the day to put her to the test. I've been using a 5/8 Genco I bought from Whipped Dog, and have made pretty good progress - have actually stopped using the safety razor for cleanup!

So to recap: 30 shaves under my belt with the WD razor, a new Bismarck from Jarrod at The Superior Shave, and 5 days of growth that needs to be mowed down.

So the questions: I went through 4 complete WTG passes, and still had patches of thick growth that I just could not remove. I had to do a WTG/XTG pass with the safety razor to clean up. These were not areas that I normally have inordinate difficulty with, so I'm wondering what happened? I'm inclined to believe that the razor was shave ready. Does a 5 day growth expose weaknesses in technique, or does it require different technique than shaving a 1-2 day growth?

I expected to require multiple WTG passes to reduce the beard before going XTG - I thought 2 passes - was that unrealistic for this amount of growth?

It's hard to tell, because in the early going I made all the right moves but they didn't always get the job done. Later on, the same strokes either worked or subtle changes unknown to me took place that resulted in success. It really took me two years to master the straight in terms of comfort and consistent results. My guess is that you're doing very well for 30 shaves. Compare this to your 100th shave and I think you'll see improvement.

When I was about at your level of experience, I memorized Joel's shaving video stroke for stroke and had a lousy shave. When that happens it's appropriate to question the shave readiness of the razor. Here's the video I'm referencing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W44WFTfqzA

 

[Kentos]

I think Jarrod gives all his blades a once over with a coti, but I don't think he resets the bevel. I could be wrong tho. In any case it does sound like it needs a bevel reset. As to why it dulled, could have been anything.

 

[Shave Ready]

It's hard to tell, because in the early going I made all the right moves but they didn't always get the job done. Later on, the same strokes either worked or subtle changes unknown to me took place that resulted in success. It really took me two years to master the straight in terms of comfort and consistent results. My guess is that you're doing very well for 30 shaves. Compare this to your 100th shave and I think you'll see improvement.

When I was about at your level of experience, I memorized Joel's shaving video stroke for stroke and had a lousy shave. When that happens it's appropriate to question the shave readiness of the razor. Here's the video I'm referencing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W44WFTfqzA

Thanks John! I've been using Joel's video as well as the photos in the Chris Moss treatise as a starting point for finding the right shave for me. I've still got a list of areas where I know practice will make perfect, but I think the best thing I've done to help myself along was to "kick the training wheels off" and commit to a straight-razor-only shave (no cleanup with the safety razor unless absolutely necessary). Of course, I needed to get to a certain level of proficiency before I could do that, but I found that the safety razor cleanup was "muting" the feedback that would tell me where my technique was lacking.

 

[Shave Ready]

I think Jarrod gives all his blades a once over with a coti, but I don't think he resets the bevel. I could be wrong tho.

That's basically what Jarrod told me. I've sent the razor off to him this morning, and he has made the arrangements to ensure that the razor is truly shave ready. I hope that he will still have the edge finished with a coti, just so that I can see what it feels like. Either way, I'm looking forward to round 2 with this beauty!