So I thought this was cool. Some high tech diamond coated razor shenanigans...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PNq4Oa1GwwE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PNq4Oa1GwwE
Might be a repost. splitting hairs
- Thread starter timtiminy
- Start date
No doubt that is some damn sharp edge. I can't imagine it's very smooth or comfortable at that level of sharp, unless you have a close to perfect technique. Otherwise, I can only imagine at how unforgiving that edge will be.
HHT 6 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sharper is ALWAYS better, right? LMAO!
WOW, I have to try that.
Pretty cool, but the hair I used isn't that rigid. Ill try it later on myself 
Seems like a good razor to thin out the beard.
I can not be the only one not even slightly impressed by this, can I?
Getting it to show up in the picture was harder than the honing. I took the razor I used yesterday, spent 30seconds on my Karasu and 1min on my Linen/Ambrose Spanish HH. First attempt with a HEAD hair, not that thick-*** body hair they're using there.
Sheesh, I always figured everyone could do this. It's all about the approach angle. If I try to do a HHT and go a bit steep, this happens almost every time.
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj29/Lithan1/PICT0013.jpg
If you want multiple slices, do what he does in the video, rotate the hair and move the blade up slightly, since you're slicing a different segment of hair and starting at 100% thickness, you will never run through because of your previous cut (unless you do an exactly 180* turn), and could theoretically continue as long as you had length to feed down.
Getting it to show up in the picture was harder than the honing. I took the razor I used yesterday, spent 30seconds on my Karasu and 1min on my Linen/Ambrose Spanish HH. First attempt with a HEAD hair, not that thick-*** body hair they're using there.
Sheesh, I always figured everyone could do this. It's all about the approach angle. If I try to do a HHT and go a bit steep, this happens almost every time.
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj29/Lithan1/PICT0013.jpg
If you want multiple slices, do what he does in the video, rotate the hair and move the blade up slightly, since you're slicing a different segment of hair and starting at 100% thickness, you will never run through because of your previous cut (unless you do an exactly 180* turn), and could theoretically continue as long as you had length to feed down.
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I tried this this morning with the TI tat has 125 shaves, no go, even with the extreme angle the hair just pops.
The only way Y have gotten splits like that doing the HHT is when the edge is not quite there-essentially an HHT 2
I would like to see this blade do the HHT in a conventional way.
The only way Y have gotten splits like that doing the HHT is when the edge is not quite there-essentially an HHT 2
I would like to see this blade do the HHT in a conventional way.
You need to get past pop to silent fall for it to be easy. It also takes two pretty steady hands and good near-vision. If you miss it or shake a little, it'll cut right through and pop. So I imagine it'd be a lot harder for older folks. The video-game generation I come from who are all near-sighted and have surgeons hands from years holding that NES controller are at an advantage here I guess.
Also you may be gripping too near the blade. Drop the grip to about an inch out if your hair is straight enough, this lets you get the angle right without putting too much force against the edge (which would cut right through). I tend to do my HHT's about an inch away. I'd actually go further, but my hair is wavy atm (short right now, it straightens out when I have it longer), so that's as far as I can go before it curves.
Also make sure you're holding at the root end. For the same reason holding tip end lets you pass HHT way, way, WAY easier, (someone explained this ages ago with scopes of hair showing the way it is almost shingled on the exterior), it also makes you much more likely to cut all the the way through. You could probably do it all the way down to an HHT-3 with the root held. (I think it's called HHT-3, I'm thinking of the "fiddle-bow" result where the hair drags) if you had steady enough hands. It's not all that much about sharpness. It's more of a parlor trick for guys that HHT with the hair held at the root.
Also, it's entirely possible that 125 shaves may not have taken enough out of it to hurt the shaves, but it will probably have axed this trick, try it with a freshly honed/stropped blade. The stropping has a LOT to do with it. (Notice I spent more time on the strop than the hone there), you need the edge to be as uniform as possible (breaks in the edge are what causes the pop result in HHT in my opinion).
Also you may be gripping too near the blade. Drop the grip to about an inch out if your hair is straight enough, this lets you get the angle right without putting too much force against the edge (which would cut right through). I tend to do my HHT's about an inch away. I'd actually go further, but my hair is wavy atm (short right now, it straightens out when I have it longer), so that's as far as I can go before it curves.
Also make sure you're holding at the root end. For the same reason holding tip end lets you pass HHT way, way, WAY easier, (someone explained this ages ago with scopes of hair showing the way it is almost shingled on the exterior), it also makes you much more likely to cut all the the way through. You could probably do it all the way down to an HHT-3 with the root held. (I think it's called HHT-3, I'm thinking of the "fiddle-bow" result where the hair drags) if you had steady enough hands. It's not all that much about sharpness. It's more of a parlor trick for guys that HHT with the hair held at the root.
Also, it's entirely possible that 125 shaves may not have taken enough out of it to hurt the shaves, but it will probably have axed this trick, try it with a freshly honed/stropped blade. The stropping has a LOT to do with it. (Notice I spent more time on the strop than the hone there), you need the edge to be as uniform as possible (breaks in the edge are what causes the pop result in HHT in my opinion).
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Yeah Doc, definitely grab a razor you just honed. I shaved with this guy yesterday, restropped today and getting the filets was a good bit harder, it kept silent falling even at the angles it would bite and filet at last night. I still managed to get four out of one rather short hair. If I had a hair straight and thick enough to hold it the way the guy with the diamond-coated-laser-honed-razor does, I'm pretty sure I could pull off exactly what he's doing there.
And the razor's not low on HHT either. Lighting sucks, but here's a few HHT's on it, all silent falls, holding at root end.
First two are held close to get rid of a really curly bit. It's not a fantastic edge (I quickhoned this thing dilucot to thuri a month or so ago, was an eBay special I'd had sitting around if memory serves), had a few quick shaves with it over the past month before touching it up really quick on my jnat for this game, I can make far, far, far sharper edges if I spend the time polishing), but it easily does silent falls, held at root end.
The weird color is youtube trying to fix the lighting and believe it or not, it actually was an improvement.
I tried to get a video of the fileting, but adding having to hold myself and the razor and hair all at awkward bent over angles to get it in frame and not shadowed made it too damn hard to pull off. Wouldn't have seen it in this lighting anyway. I may try and get a video of it at a better table in daylight tomorrow if I find the time, but with my camera skills it's hardly worth bothering.
If I had to guess, I'd venture that a ballpark 10k JIS finish that was polished up well and stropped very well could do what's in the video with steady enough hands. It's really coordination > stropping > finish.
And the razor's not low on HHT either. Lighting sucks, but here's a few HHT's on it, all silent falls, holding at root end.
First two are held close to get rid of a really curly bit. It's not a fantastic edge (I quickhoned this thing dilucot to thuri a month or so ago, was an eBay special I'd had sitting around if memory serves), had a few quick shaves with it over the past month before touching it up really quick on my jnat for this game, I can make far, far, far sharper edges if I spend the time polishing), but it easily does silent falls, held at root end.
The weird color is youtube trying to fix the lighting and believe it or not, it actually was an improvement.
I tried to get a video of the fileting, but adding having to hold myself and the razor and hair all at awkward bent over angles to get it in frame and not shadowed made it too damn hard to pull off. Wouldn't have seen it in this lighting anyway. I may try and get a video of it at a better table in daylight tomorrow if I find the time, but with my camera skills it's hardly worth bothering.
If I had to guess, I'd venture that a ballpark 10k JIS finish that was polished up well and stropped very well could do what's in the video with steady enough hands. It's really coordination > stropping > finish.
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Alright, got the video, can't see the cutting as well as I'd like, but about as good as I can get with my camera skills. I touched up the blade a few passes on my jnat on water again to be sure I could get it to split every attempt, so this is freshly honed and stropped.
The mic on my camera is horrid, so it amplifies my cpu fan and turns it into that horrible wobble effect, sorry about that. You can mute it, it's just me muttering to the camera to count the splits.
So yeah, definitely go with a fresh touch-up. So very much easier. Strop sufficiently, hold at the root, and easy as pie.
The mic on my camera is horrid, so it amplifies my cpu fan and turns it into that horrible wobble effect, sorry about that. You can mute it, it's just me muttering to the camera to count the splits.
So yeah, definitely go with a fresh touch-up. So very much easier. Strop sufficiently, hold at the root, and easy as pie.
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Doesn't look like a hair at all. Same color throughout. Too straight same diameter the entire length. Some sort of filament or something. Nice. A sharp razor. Made of diamonds. I guess it won't ever need sharpening either. With diamonds being hard and having no flex I'd imagine better shaves from a putty knife ran across the driveway.
HHT...this just solidifies even more the fact that this test is a moot point. Useless. If you have to finagle and twist and contort and manipulate this many ways just to get it to "pass" then seriously...why bother? You've proven nothing. Fooled yourself maybe. But all that time you spent making this thing pass you could have actually spent it honing and produced a great shaving razor instead.
It's like a crooked used car salesman pouring sawdust in the engine and using all sorts of other tricks so it performs well on the test drive. That's his HHT. Runs/ shaves good right?? Hmmm.
No.
That is all. Carry on.
HHT...this just solidifies even more the fact that this test is a moot point. Useless. If you have to finagle and twist and contort and manipulate this many ways just to get it to "pass" then seriously...why bother? You've proven nothing. Fooled yourself maybe. But all that time you spent making this thing pass you could have actually spent it honing and produced a great shaving razor instead.
It's like a crooked used car salesman pouring sawdust in the engine and using all sorts of other tricks so it performs well on the test drive. That's his HHT. Runs/ shaves good right?? Hmmm.
No.
That is all. Carry on.
Actually the trouble is making it NOT pass. It tends to silent fall, the trick is getting it to split. And like I said, it's a parlor trick, not really reliant on edge quality past a certain point. That said, this isn't really HHT. And HHT isn't a moot point, it works great to check if the toe of a hone-smirked straight is getting sufficient polish.
Using it to compare performance of razors is much more tricky, but lots of guys can and do use it to that end. It's a matter of being familiar enough with your hair, your HHT, and your razors to actually know what to read from it. I personally just use it to check sections of the edge (the same way I'd use an arm hair test when beveling) on razors that don't sit flat on the hone, which is how I discovered this trick, and when I saw this thread it made me laugh that fileting hairs was their demonstration of edge performance, when it really doesn't take all that sharp of an edge. The only reason I brought HHT into the conversation is Doc has had this happen to him with razors that gave him lower HHT results, so I wanted to demonstrate that edge imperfections weren't necessarily part of the trick by showing a series of silent falls.
And, all that time spent making it pass was maybe three minutes total. The time consuming part was dealing with the damn camera. And the edge does shave great. To be fair it shaved great before I did all this, but we've all been sharpening long enough I hope that making an edge that shaves great isn't a time consuming process (unless we want it to be). If I can't have a little fun with my razors and hones because I'm worried I won't have the time to get a good shaving edge because of it, then I need to hone faster or work less. On second thought, I do need to do both of those things, but not for that reason.
The diamonds shouldn't need to flex, the material they are bound in can flex. This tech likely actually COULD make a perfectly serviceable disposable/DE blade... it's probably just too outrageously expensive to ever do that.
Edit: Actually, rereading the comments, it does sound like it's a solid piece of manmade diamond on the edge, so you're right there if that's the case.
Using it to compare performance of razors is much more tricky, but lots of guys can and do use it to that end. It's a matter of being familiar enough with your hair, your HHT, and your razors to actually know what to read from it. I personally just use it to check sections of the edge (the same way I'd use an arm hair test when beveling) on razors that don't sit flat on the hone, which is how I discovered this trick, and when I saw this thread it made me laugh that fileting hairs was their demonstration of edge performance, when it really doesn't take all that sharp of an edge. The only reason I brought HHT into the conversation is Doc has had this happen to him with razors that gave him lower HHT results, so I wanted to demonstrate that edge imperfections weren't necessarily part of the trick by showing a series of silent falls.
And, all that time spent making it pass was maybe three minutes total. The time consuming part was dealing with the damn camera. And the edge does shave great. To be fair it shaved great before I did all this, but we've all been sharpening long enough I hope that making an edge that shaves great isn't a time consuming process (unless we want it to be). If I can't have a little fun with my razors and hones because I'm worried I won't have the time to get a good shaving edge because of it, then I need to hone faster or work less. On second thought, I do need to do both of those things, but not for that reason.
The diamonds shouldn't need to flex, the material they are bound in can flex. This tech likely actually COULD make a perfectly serviceable disposable/DE blade... it's probably just too outrageously expensive to ever do that.
Edit: Actually, rereading the comments, it does sound like it's a solid piece of manmade diamond on the edge, so you're right there if that's the case.
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I would have to cometely disagree with the HHT being moot and useless.
I know MY HHT coming off MY stones and how it correlates with MY shave.
I can gauge a razors performance based on my HHT without having to shave with it.
On the flip side having a great HHT does not mean a great shave unless you know and have correlated how it was honed.
I get great HHTs off film but don't enjoy the shave. If you gave me a razor and did not tell me how it was honed I could not tell how how it's going to shave based on the HHT.
I hone a fair amount for me and others and do not have to rely on shaving with each razor to know how that shave is going to be.
I hone - I shave. I've never used the HHT.
I don't believe for a minute that any test with so many obvious variables will tell me something I don't already know when coming off the stone.
I have popped brush bristles for funzies - but I don't get a sensation of 'knowing' anything from that.
If doing it makes ya feel good, that's cool.
I'm gonna go oil a Coti and sharpen some bolt cutters now...
I don't believe for a minute that any test with so many obvious variables will tell me something I don't already know when coming off the stone.
I have popped brush bristles for funzies - but I don't get a sensation of 'knowing' anything from that.
If doing it makes ya feel good, that's cool.
I'm gonna go oil a Coti and sharpen some bolt cutters now...
Make sure you finish on the BBW side.
The big question is, if you oil a coticule, sharpen a razor, then use it, will it leave you with the same edge as if you had not oiled the coticule?
Gamma, when I get a razor that was overhoned at the toe (so the toe doesn't touch the hone without pressure/lifting the tang/extreme x angles/etc), I'm always torn between not wanting to further the damage (which happens if I use the methods available to actually get that toe honed), and wanting to have the same quality edge at the toe as at the rest of the razor. With most razors, my solution is to do as little focused honing as I can on the toe, and accept that it may be a bit less keen than the rest of the edge, but hopefully the rest of the razor will gradually catch up to its wear level. The way I judge if I've achieved this balance without taking two possibly profoundly different finishes on the same razor to my face is with the HHT. When I'm honing a full razor, I agree that for me, the stones will tell me most of what I need to know, and the shave tells me the rest. But when I'm honing a couple mm's at the very tip of the razor, I just can't get a feel for that honing off the stone most of the time, and that's where HHT comes in. I get a feel for it almost the same as I do for honing to where you can tell where the shift happens and get a rough idea of how far away from the rest of the edge the toe is.
Gamma, when I get a razor that was overhoned at the toe (so the toe doesn't touch the hone without pressure/lifting the tang/extreme x angles/etc), I'm always torn between not wanting to further the damage (which happens if I use the methods available to actually get that toe honed), and wanting to have the same quality edge at the toe as at the rest of the razor. With most razors, my solution is to do as little focused honing as I can on the toe, and accept that it may be a bit less keen than the rest of the edge, but hopefully the rest of the razor will gradually catch up to its wear level. The way I judge if I've achieved this balance without taking two possibly profoundly different finishes on the same razor to my face is with the HHT. When I'm honing a full razor, I agree that for me, the stones will tell me most of what I need to know, and the shave tells me the rest. But when I'm honing a couple mm's at the very tip of the razor, I just can't get a feel for that honing off the stone most of the time, and that's where HHT comes in. I get a feel for it almost the same as I do for honing to where you can tell where the shift happens and get a rough idea of how far away from the rest of the edge the toe is.
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Yeah, I'm not too impressed. I whittled a head hair three passes without rotating, using a carving knife I made and sharpened freehand. I do use it for a sense of how refined an edge is, but I don't do HHT on my razors.
Here is a pic of the three passes on the same side done with a whittling knife...
Mind you, this was freehand sharpened.
-Xander
Here is a pic of the three passes on the same side done with a whittling knife...
Mind you, this was freehand sharpened.
-Xander
