Michael Jackson "This Is It"

[The Knize]

I am right now watching the DVD released today--"This is It"--of the Michael Jackson rehersals that were taking place, at the time of his death, in preparation for a Herculean series of London shows. I had see this it previously in the theatre on a big screen with a good sound system.

He seems slightly more frail to me that when I saw this in the theater--he seems even skinner than he seemed on the bg screen. But i still do not get it. I am sure that magic can be worked with excellent film editing, etc., but I do not buy that this is a drug-addled, in shaky health, out of it guy. I understand from folks that should know that if MJ were really taking the amounts of perscription drugs thay say he was around this time there is no way he would be functioning at any kind of reasonable level.

I do not consider myself a huge MJ fan and I certainly think he was not within a couple of standard deviations of normal on lots continua. But this is impressive stuff. Genius at work stuff, exept that it is really "master of his craft" at work. He seems like a guy in control, a guy working very hard and very creatively at something he is very good at. A 50 year old guy that is the best dancer on the stage with fantastically good young dancer selected from hundreds if not thousands.

Good filmmaking, too. Low key. Focus on the music,the dancing, and the preparation, when it could have been some treacley tribue to a tragically now dead giant of music, but single parent of three young children, etc. Very effective.

In total contrast to the "extras" which, so far, anyway, are heads talking about how best every the shows would be, how MJ felt about this and that, how emotional and great everything was. Just as horrible and maudlin as one could possibly imagine. They ought to be embarassed to have this crap on a disk with film that does not tell one how good MJ was. It simply shows how good. A film that does not talk about the interactions of various people involved--it shows us. Eck!

 

[VR6ofpain]

Michael Jackson was an extremely talented artist/musician. Unfortunately he had a really off personal life. I still enjoy a lot of his classic stuff. Off the Wall is an incredible album.

In reference to your thread, I do like the newer track "This is It". Not sure if that was something he recorded or something they put together after he died. My brother actually picked it up, so I plan on borrowing to see if it is worth purchasing.

I really regred giving away the vinyl copy of Thriller I bought for $1 used years ago. It would be something to frame today.

 

[The Knize]

I picked up the DVD from Redbox. I did not run out and buy it, but it might be worth owning. As a movie about rehersals it is pretty good entertainment. I think it did capture, however, how much work is involved in putting together that kind of show. How many times the same piece is done over and over.

That is actually another disappointing aspect of the DVD. They do not have it divided up very well so that one can find the performance parts, which are probably worth watching over and other. I do not know how many times I could watch a movie that is in part about how tedious it is getting ready for this kind of pop show. EDIT: Maybe they are saving a better presentation for a deluxe edition.

I completely agree with your post. MJ was an extemely talented artist/musician. Said to be the best American male dancer since Fred Astaire and this movie shows that to be true, for sure, and it is no small thing. I completely agree that "Off the Wall" was an incredible album. I personally think Quincy Jones got way too much credit for MJs albums. As I understand it, QJ did everything he possibly could to keep "Billie Jean" off of Thiller, because he did not think it was very good or would be very popular. Anyone that hasn't should listen the MJ demo of Billie Jean. You Tube has it, among other places. Very, very close to the fnal version. If QJ really did try to keep Billie Jean off of Thriller, for whatever reason, his taste and skill is questionable, and his imagination apparently pretty limted.

The particular song "This Is It" seems okay, not great, to me.

Anyway, I am probably not being very articulate now or in the initial post.

My point really more something like, was MJ really that screwed up when these rehearals were being filmed, and there is some extraordinary film magic going on, or is a lot what has been written about his state before his death utterly wrong. I have been enough highly functioning alcoholics or even druggies to believe I am not looking at that kind of person at work in this film As far as I can tell, MJs physician managed to kill an absolutely fully functioning artist, hard at work getting ready for a true marathon of shows, but a marathon that he seemed fully capable of handling.

MJ may have been a pretty weird guy personally. But I do not see that he was impaired in being able to do what he was famous for and to do it very well indeed.

 

[NightLad]

Michael Jackson... no matter what anybody has to say about him there is no denying his talent and appeal to many, many people. However, personally, I’m not a fan. Well, perhaps more specifically, I’m not -not- a fan. I was just never into his music. I liked a couple songs, but generally he didn’t appeal to me.

Maybe it’s my age. I was born around the height of his popularity and by the time I can really remember him, he had already started to go into seclusion. He was still wildly popular of course, but the height had passed.

My parents still remember him preforming with his brothers in the Jackson 5. Maybe if I had that kind of memory of him I’d feel more enamoured. I don’t know.

Either way, I agree that he was a giant and his influence on popular culture and the music industry will last forever. The number of artists he inspired attest to that.

As for the ‘personal life’ stuff… ug. Who knows where reality stops and fiction begins. He was chum for the media frenzy wherever he went. How much of that he invited/promoted and how much he didn’t may never be known.

 

[RILEY]

Speaking as a fan of music and who enjoys all genres of music, its 2010, on the rudderless music scene, there is no new artist or talent of Michael Jackson's calibre on the horizon

 

[The Knize]

Good post, NightLad. Just curious mostly, but who are you really into these days--anyone that seems particularly influenced by MJ?-- and are you really into anyone that goes back as far as MJ?

Probably pretty hard for any of us to put ourselves back into the days when MJ really hit it big on his own. Hard to imagine a time when MTV actually played music videos 24/7, they meant something as a cultural art form, and MTV did not play black acts at all. MJ did blow the doors open, essentially by putting out product that was of such quality that he could not be ignored.

But then, sort of like Woody Allen, he became odd in so many ways, that it was very hard to relate personally to him and thus hard to feel all that deeply about the music. There were really not all that many years between Billie Jean and I do not even know when things started to go horribly wrong. Then after that it was way more about tabloids than music or performance. His musical production dried up pretty quickly really. He really put out some tripe. So I frankly do not know why anyone that only experienced MJ from that perspective would be into him at all.

And I do not know how infuential he will really prove to be. He opened doors for African-American entertainers. He incorporated non-African-American music into his own music. And he probably brought up the level of stage shows everywhere. Who is the 2010 MJ? Most of what MJ did was just really good versions of what was there before him and there afterward. In particular, I do not think his sort of hiccuppy vocal style ever really caught on. I do not think that many can do that very well, and after a while I am not sure that he could. Actually, I think he over did it.

By I guess my question was really, did anyone else have the same impressions I did of the film: 1) this is pretty darn good filmmaking; 2) MJ shows really well; his performances in rehersal are really, really good and his talent, skill, and work ethic are all extraordinary; 3) where is the drug addled guy we read about in the news? But on the latter point, I assume that the reports of the drugs he was taking should have been based on some facts. Can anyone really perform at the level he was and be taking that much medication? Or were the filmmakers just that good? Or what?

 

[TimmyBoston]

I'm sick of everything Michael Jackson.

 

[Angus Young]

Michael Jackson's legacy could have been so much more than it is. IMHO he was an amazing talent but lazy with it. He pushed boundaries and wasn't afraid to experiment in his early days but once he found a formula that worked he stopped taking chances and lazily churned out music to the formula he new would be a comercial success. If he had the same creative drive as someone like Prince it'd be frightening to think what "pop" music would sound like today. Prince is the artist MJ should have become and then some. Sure some of Prince's music is poor but he also has flashes of pure genius where as MJ just seemed to get bored and stop trying. As for the drug question; none of us know what he was taking before his rehearsals. Some drugs pick you up and some put you down so who knows. For what it's worth if that Doctor hadn't gave him the drugs that killed him he would have just found another Doctor who would. There are a lot of people with blood on their hands concerning his death, some of whom are continuing to make money from him.

 

[The Knize]

I'm sick of everything Michael Jackson.

You would be even more sick of MJ if you watched the "extras" on this DVD, believe me! You might still like the film itself, though. I sometimes watch the extras first. In the case of this DVD, I suggest not watching the extras at all!

At the end of the day, I am way more of a film buff than I am a Michael Jackson fan. It has always been interesting to me how hard it seems to be to capture the experience of great music/musical performance on film. I thought they did a really good job here. Someone sure knew how to edit film to tell a story and to apparently capture the feeling of the time and place.

Maybe it is just me though. No one else on the board seems as impressed or interested as I am! Maybe no one saw it.

I saw the director's cut of Woodstock recently. Some of the performances were filmed very well. Much of the film seemed pretty lame watching it now, again. I thought Last Waltz did a pretty good job. I thought Scorsese's film on the Stones was nearly awful. I thought the film on the Canadian tour with Janis Joplin and The Band was near great. I thought "Once" did a good job, but some folks just hated it!

 

[SalvadorMontenegro]

He is my absolute favorite. I will never forget when I first heard Thriller. I will never forget his Super Bowl half time show performance that rocked my world when I was just a little kid.

I generally don't affix myself to celebrities, but I grew up on Michael Jackson. For YEARS he was the only thing I listened to. When I think of him, I don't think of all the dreadful news that came about later in his life, I don't think about how troubled he was, I think of my childhood and how his music helped me get through the highs and lows of growing up. Maybe I sound like one of these maudlin fellows you're describing on the DVD, but when he died, I felt like I'd lost a long lost friend. That said, the coverage after his death was a bit much.

Anyway, I didn't know the DVD was out, so I think I'll go buy it today!

 

[The Knize]

Good post SalvadorMontenegro. I probably should be more careful in what I am writing. I did not mean to say that MJ was not a cultural force, and was not deeply important to lots of folks, for very good reason. And because of all of that he is highly symbolic of lots of things for our culture, even world-wide cultural. That symbolism at the end of the day is probably way more significant to the world than whether or not the man was or was not a particular way. Like I think I said earlier, an ink blot for the culture or individuals to project their internal stuff onto.

He was a great and talented artist, who as such could communicate human feelings in special, greatly affecting ways. Such is art--the importance of art, whether popular art or so-called high art.

And at base, there is something breathtaking tragic about the world losing someone capable of doing that or even just someone of such symbolic significance in such a needless way.

I suppose when I heard that he had died and of how, I thought as many did that it seemed kind of inevitable; that he seemed long beyond doing much of importance musically; and that he was probably utterly addicted to drugs and a shell of what he had been all around, so it did not make much difference whether he was techinically alive or not. Maybe in that sense it would be good that he died in this way. A lesson to those who would be careless with their lives, etc., etc., etc.

But like I said at the beginning of this thread, my perception, which I was sort of trying to check as to accuracy, is that this film seems to put the lie to the foregoing paragraph. Seems like basically his physician simply accidently killed a man/an artist in relatively good health fully capable and actually producing excellent work in an area in which he was extremely talented. There was nothiing inevitable about MJ going out this or a similar way, or that he would die relatively young. He was not used up as a artist. Sure he was an odd, troubled guy, but as a general matter there was no reason to think he was about to buy the farm. Basically, he was involved in a stupid activity, that I suppose most of us could not be involved in because we lack the money to do it. But his death seems mostly just kind of random. In death he was not a saint or particularly a sinner. He was just kind of clumsy or reckless. Actually, I am not sure we really have the whole story. I do not think the medical profession would tell us if what he was doing was really pretty safe, if one had someone in charge that did not drift off and do something else while you were under!

I am not sure what any of this tells us as a society. I guess my major thought is, it tells us nothing at all, given how the "story" seems so obviously different from the facts on display. Or maybe it tells us again because of the symbolism that as a society/culture we have a need to believe something different and perhaps bigger than what actually happened.

Maudlin is right re the extras. Also diefying. Grandiose. Hyperbolic. Frigging annoying at every turn. What was MJ like to work with? Not he was good at this or that. Not he did bad and then came up with something really good. Not he was out of it sometimes and other times brilliantly focused. But he was the nicest guy, a genius, these would have been the best shows ever put on, etc., etc. Gag me with a spoon. Who needs more of that. And in the end, maybe it really was that kind of nonsense that killed him!

 

[SalvadorMontenegro]

I was not at all surprised that he died. Certain people, it seems to me, are just simply larger than life and to go slowly into old age and die naturally just seems... I don't know... contrary to their nature? Contrary to their destiny? Obviously, MJ was well past his prime, but I could never imagine him at 75, unable to moonwalk, spin, dance or astound an audience.

The world has lost some incredibly talented people well before they reached old age: James Dean, Montgomery Clift, Marilyn Monroe, Elvis Presley, Jimi Hendrix, John Lennon, Kurt Cobain, Tupac Shakur, Notorious BIG, Heath Ledger, Michael Jackson... All of these people were of different ages and died in their unique way, but they all went before their time and they were all extraordinarily talented. In some cases (James Dean, Marilyn Monroe, etc.) it may be that their untimely death transformed them into something larger than they were when they were alive. Michael Jackson was always a giant, even as a child in the Jackson 5. It almost seemed foreordained that he would burn out and not fade away.

I haven't paid much attention to the cause of his death. For me, all that matters is that he's dead. It's a tremendous tragedy and was upsetting to me. The nice thing, I think, is that so many people felt the way I did. They grew up on his music, fell in love with him (in a certain sense), but as they grew older and he got... weirder, they drifted away from him. When he died, it's like everybody just came back. We all relived the memories we had of him and all that filth was washed away. He was just Michael Jackson - an adorable, precocious child performer and arguably the greatest entertainer of all time. And that's what we all remembered.

 

[The Knize]

Well said, SalvadorMontenegro, and I do not know why I was feeling compelled to play amateur sociologist/psychologist.

You list is an interesting one to think about.

James Dean absolutely died in his prime or before his prime. You could say he was reckless thus predestined to die young, but was he really? Lots of folks died in car or motorcycle crashs especially back in the day. I do not know that Dean was particularly reckless in his life in general. He certainly did not seem inherently fragile.

Montgomery Clift probably well past his prime and clearly in bad health, in part from a severe car crash. He certainly was fragile by end, but I doubt that he seemed that way all along.

Marilyn Monroe certainly seemed mentally very fragile. Who knows what really happened there. Maybe closest to MJ as basically physician error. No physician prescribes Neubutal to anyone anymore for anything, and it probably never should have been prescribed to anyone. Or maybe a suicide--there did seem to be a depression, suicidal tendency that hung over her--which could be seen as another kind of physician error.

Elvis Presley more physician "error," really. No one should have been prescribed the cornucopia of drugs Elvis was.

Jimi Hendrix, "operator error" apparently. I do not think anyone thought of Jimi as reckless, fragile, or self-destructive. No reason he could not have lived be an old blues man.

John Lennon simply murdered. A lightning strike from the blue. Not fragile. Not suicidal. Not self-destructive. No reason on earth that we do not still have John Lennon with us as a wise older guy.

Kurt Cobain, deeply clinically depressed, self-destructive, fragile, reckless. Determined to off himself. Wanted to die for very badly. Mentally ill. Nothing too romantic about it.

Tupac Shakur stunningly reckless. Determined to fit in with a very violent crowd. No surprise that he was gunned down. Not fragile. Probably no suicidal. But scary reckless.

Notorious BIG not particularly reckless. Not fragile. Not suicidal. Careless maybe. Maybe too concerned about appearing to be afraid or something like that. Perhaps to some extent "keeping it real." I do not really know. Certainly no one has offed Sean Combs or even tried to. Probably in the wrong game at the wrong time. Maybe brought down by Tupac's reckelessness.

Heath Ledger. I do not remember where they came out on cause of death. Did he really seem that fragile? That destined to die?

Michael Jackson. I agree that he seemed troubled, essentially mentally unstable. Seemed extremely fragile. Maybe too sensitive to live in the world as it is, or something like that. Seemed to have sexual issues. Certainly many folks that have sexual issues with children end up committing suicide. Did not seem like a happy guy. Seemed in very bad physicial health for years and years. Had not produced anything much artistically for at least a decade. Maybe closest to MM. So on those bases, no surprise that he would die suddenly.

I guess what I am thinking about though is what if none of that was really true at the time MJ died. That he was generally physically pretty healthy. In good voice and able to dance and otherwise more nearly as well at 50 as he had been at 15. A tad thin, but not fragile in any real sense. A devoted single fagther of three. Engaged in and doing excellent work in his field. Not washed up. Not depressed. Not unhappy. Not reckless. Not particularly financially stressed. A very big payday on the way. A guy just trying to get some good sleep!

Not a romantic a picture, but no less sad.

I promise to shut up now!

 

[Trendkill]

I am right now watching the DVD released today--"This is It"--of the Michael Jackson rehersals that were taking place, at the time of his death, in preparation for a Herculean series of London shows. I had see this it previously in the theatre on a big screen with a good sound system.

He seems slightly more frail to me that when I saw this in the theater--he seems even skinner than he seemed on the bg screen. But i still do not get it. I am sure that magic can be worked with excellent film editing, etc., but I do not buy that this is a drug-addled, in shaky health, out of it guy. I understand from folks that should know that if MJ were really taking the amounts of perscription drugs thay say he was around this time there is no way he would be functioning at any kind of reasonable level.

I do not consider myself a huge MJ fan and I certainly think he was not within a couple of standard deviations of normal on lots continua. But this is impressive stuff. Genius at work stuff, exept that it is really "master of his craft" at work. He seems like a guy in control, a guy working very hard and very creatively at something he is very good at. A 50 year old guy that is the best dancer on the stage with fantastically good young dancer selected from hundreds if not thousands.

Good filmmaking, too. Low key. Focus on the music,the dancing, and the preparation, when it could have been some treacley tribue to a tragically now dead giant of music, but single parent of three young children, etc. Very effective.

In total contrast to the "extras" which, so far, anyway, are heads talking about how best every the shows would be, how MJ felt about this and that, how emotional and great everything was. Just as horrible and maudlin as one could possibly imagine. They ought to be embarassed to have this crap on a disk with film that does not tell one how good MJ was. It simply shows how good. A film that does not talk about the interactions of various people involved--it shows us. Eck!

My wife and I were discussing this while we watched it. Every single move he made looked intentional. He didn't come close to a misstep. I think that show would have been great...

 

[The Knize]

My wife and I were discussing this while we watched it. Every single move he made looked intentional. He didn't come close to a misstep. I think that show would have been great...

This is the kind of thing I was looking for when i started this thread. Feedback on whether others had the same or different impressions that I did.

Yep, I thought so, too. He moved amazingly well for a 50 year old guy. One could say, "well, he has been making those same moves his entire life, he ought to be able to do them." But I do not think he has, I think he was working on new routines the entire time. It seemed to me that what he was doing was very different from what he did, for instance, for Billie Jean. No moon walk, for instance. I would have to watch it some more really to decide, but I would say that his overall style was evolving. Way less crotch grabbing, for instance. Kind of a more mature style.

And even if he had made similar moves a lot over the years, how many years had it been since he was on the road and actively working at these things.

Sometimes he seemed to take things easy, maybe go a little slow, and not do anything all that impressive. Other times he seemed to snap into full on dance mode, with the overall impression being "that seems impossible!"

I thought he had good chemistry with both Orianthi, the female guitarist, and Judith Hill, the female vocalist. Balletic interaction.

 

[azmark]

I'm sick of everything Michael Jackson.

++Me

 

[SalvadorMontenegro]

So, I watched the film last night.

Wow. I was really impressed. It's amazing to me that he micromanaged nearly every fine detail of the concert. One of my favorite parts is where there was supposed to be a sort of "pop" in the beat to The Way You Make Me Feel that would cue a change in movement and pace and he was upset that it just went off without him signaling it. And the part where he was talking to the music director about getting the beginning of the beat for the same song just right. This was a Michael Jackson I had never seen. The tremendously talented artist at work in the factory.

As you guys have said, he looked healthy aside from his cosmetic appearance. He moved beautifully. The part where he was sort of free style improvising movement at the end of Billy Jean was incredible. The dancers were going nuts. I kept thinking about how this guy was six years younger than my father and moving like he was a teenager. And he was running and jumping and bouncing around. It's hard to believe he was taking such a cocktail of drugs.

The thing I really took away is that this guy was unbelievably talented. Even if you hate, hate HATE his music, no matter what your opinion is regarding his personal life and appearance, I cannot possibly see how ANYONE could dispute that this was a man incredibly blessed and gifted.

I don't like to discuss his personal life, but I will say this: he seemed almost like a child. At times I felt like I was watching a little kid. I don't mean this in a disparaging way, because it obviously worked for him. But between how soft spoken he was, how gentle he was and how he would often appear on the brink of a tantrum, only to quash it by will, I was reminded of a young child. I think it's highly possible that this guy had such a horrid childhood that he just never, truly grew up.

 

[The Knize]

To me his childlikeness has been much discussed. To me he came across as more manly and in charge than I would have expected. He seemed to think about what it would take to motivate folks working in the show and to use that and to take responsibility for inspiring them to do their best, and to join with them. Also to push the directors and the like to keep focused and really produce.

I did not see him so much as on the brink of a tantrum as saying, "look we are all working very hard here. This is an expensive process. My ear piece needs to work properly. The details need to be in place. No one can dog it. We are all in this together."

Another aspect of manliness I thought was his interaction with some of the women. I thought there was real chemistry between him and the dancer in PYT, with Judith Hill in Can't Stop Looking You, and with the female guitar player. Maybe it was something he could turn on and off as something again motivational for them, but it seemed impressive.