Loft? Knot Size? super ultra badger of awesomeness?

[zethreal]

Ok, so I'm working towards abandoning my boar brush for a good badger that will last me a while. Right now I'm using the cheap Omega boar one that came with my set. It has a monstrous handle and I'd like to get something smaller. I'm going to be getting a custom handle ( it's all picked out ) but I'm trying to figure out what type of knot I want for the brush.

I guess I like a higher loft ( I like longer bristles ) and would like something soft, but still with a backbone. I also have no clue what the difference with 'bulb' vs. 'fan' is for the knot type... I'm assuming that a fan has them spread out more with a bulb has them pointed more inwards? What are the pros/cons for each?

I know there is a lot of 'ymmv' around, so I'd like more of a general idea around them... I've looked and haven't really found one ( though I have completely missed stuff like that before ). I also don't want a 'what's your budget' because I don't really have one set in stone. I'll work between all the different variables when I get to that point

 

[bobfarvour]

The Bulb will have more backbone, the fan will splay out on your face more. A smaller fan feels like a larger bulb to a certain degree.
I face lather and prefer bulb. I would think a bowl latherer would prefer a fan.

The most important thing is how do you use it ? Are you in a bowl or on your face or a combination ? Do you like soft or scritchy ?
Those are much more important than cost.

 

[zethreal]

I've only had 2 brushes and both were rather scritchy, which I do like. I currently bowl lather and don't see me changing that in the near future.

 

[blantyre]

If you have some time you could always consider waiting for a Rooney finest to turn up on BST - something like a 3/1 has a high loft and has backbone and softness as well. View attachment $rooney31.jpg

 

[bobfarvour]

I'd recommend a Finest Fan Shape from TGN. It would seem to me that it matters much less for a bowl latherer, as it's only applying the already made lather, but that's what I would suggest. I would also think the Finest would be an easier transition from boar.
I'd say Finest, Fan Shape, 50mm loft.

I've heard the Shavemac D01 two band also fits that bill, but wouldn't know. Pretty much any two band has a good scritchiness to it.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Super Ultra badger of awesomeness for me are Rooney Finest. I have a 1/2 (style 1 size 2) that would be my brush if I could have only one. They are not made anymore but come up on BST here and there (there was one last week). They are pricey. $200-400

Of what is available now, I like M&F. I would ask him to pick me his densest knot if I bought one now. I got mine when he was just starting out and they are in my opinion just Rooney Finest with far less density. Still a great brush.

A big step down in price but not quality are TGN (the golden nib) finest knots. My favorite size is the 24mm. I found the 26mm slightly less dense. I have not tried the 28 or 30mm but I have heard the 30mm is very dense. These hairs are different from the Rooney Finest and M&F in that they are less resilient and seem to "merge" a bit more, not unlike a well broken in boar. It's hard to describe, but in my eyes it means they should be set a few mm lower in loft versus the Rooney and M&F. You still get an excellent brush and at a very good price.


Then of coarse there are three bands and a number of other very nice two bands (The Rooney XL line for instance). I am very fond of the Chubby 1 in Best. But I think most people looking for a divergence from boar will be more impressed by some of the two bands available.


Bulb vs Fan. There are some arguable differences in how they do what they do. Most people seem to think fans look better. I was fond of fans for awhile but recently trimming my 2 bands down I've discovered that I actually prefer my bulbs across the board in use. It's not a large difference, but I had six or seven two bands to trim down, and I kept all the bulbs. I prefer fans a bit more for three band hair but only if the loft is kept plenty short to ensure good backbone (I only like VERY stubby three band brushes). Given that, I'd tend to lean towards recommending you pick a two band again (as you like longer bristles).


Obviously check out some pictures and such, but my recommendation from what I use and like would be a TGN Finest 24mm bulb at 46mm loft in whatever handle you like OR a M&F 26mm blonde badger bulb at 50mm loft (I'm not sure what his handle options are these days).


edit: Shavemac D01 two band is a good option too. I tried a couple of those and found them nice. I don't recall any dimensions though so I'll leave recommendations on that to others.

 

[zethreal]

@SliceOfLife - great breakdown! I'll definitely look at tgn more & look closely at the 2-band ones. Thanks!

 

[Face&Head]

If you want soft with backbone you may want to re-think the high loft. As Bob says, a bulb is probably the best choice but badger brushes generally don't have the lofts of the boars. I'd be cautious about a loft that was more that 2.2 times the diameter of the knot. For example you wouldn't want the loft on a 26 mm silvertip knot to exceed 56 mm (and that would really be pushing it as I really don't like to go above a 2.0 ratio). A really radically shaped bulb like in a Thäter 3-band can get away with a bit more but that's the exception. Moreover, some knots are not packed as densely as others and this will be a major determinate in the amount of backbone. Rudy Vey offers both TGN and Shavemac knots and they are a world apart (and priced accordingly).

 

[Face&Head]

I would add that the Shavemac D01 2-bands are quite scrubby and can display a fair amount of scritch while the 3-bands are very dense, soft and luxurious. Both are excellent, so it really just depends on your personal preferences. As I understand it from your original post you have a handle picked out so are really just looking for a knot and not recommendations for a brush from one of the manufactures.

 

[zethreal]

I only really know the higher loft brushes ( I have the omega boar & an older burma-shave boar, both seem to have a pretty high loft ) and I like them. I really shouldn't have said that about them as I've never tried anything that was very short. The main thing I'd be looking for is a bit of a backbone & good density. I don't really mind a shorter loft, I'm just really going by what limited experience I have.

Here, I'll modify it a bit: I really like the scrubbing feeling I get from my current brushes. It scrubs pretty well, but doesn't feel like I'm raking a brillo pad across my face. I also bowl lather instead of face lathering. that's about all I can do for an 'educated' description of what I like/dislike. The rest is just assumptions based on what I have.

 

[Face&Head]

Here are a couple of Shavemac D01 3-bands. The tall lofted fan has little backbone while the bulb has plenty (it's also a larger knot).




Here are a couple of Thäter 2-bands; again the bulb has significantly more backbone although in this case the fan is adequate.



Finally, this is a D01 short-lofted 2-band set in a Rudy Vey custom handle. Very scrubby & exfoliating.

 

[bobfarvour]

I only really know the higher loft brushes ( I have the omega boar & an older burma-shave boar, both seem to have a pretty high loft ) and I like them.

Boars tend to be higher loft than badgers across the board. They are a stiffer hair.

 

[takeshi]

I know there is a lot of 'ymmv' around

YMMV really just means it's highly subjective. The more info the person asking provides the better the feedback.

Moreover, some knots are not packed as densely as others and this will be a major determinate in the amount of backbone.

This is important to note. I was leery of the 57mm loft M&F that Lee suggested to me when I was shopping for an M&F but it has a dense 28mm knot and good backbone (FWIW, I face lather). Not as much as a boar but it's definitely not floppy at all.

 

[zethreal]

In this context you should take YMMV to mean how do you use your brush? What are you looking for from a brush? YMMV really just means it's highly subjective. The more info the person asking provides the better the feedback.

Alright... I'm looking for a brush that has a bit of backbone, is a bit softer than my boar brush and is geared for someone that bowl lathers. I'd prefer one that will do a decent job all around as I use soft creams, thick creams ( like the proraso tub ), milled & 'melt & pour' soaps. I will be keeping my boar, which I can use if it works better for specific soaps.creams though.

I don't really know what else there is... Is there anything I'm missing?

 

[edgerunner]

I'd suggest T&H Rooney size 2 (medium), if you want a fan; Shavemac 177, or Savile Row, if you want a bulb. They are all in the same price range, have soft tips, and are versatile brushes for creams, soaps, face and bowl lathering. Lots of folks will suggest Simpsons Best but the three I mentioned are softer IME.

 

[SliceOfLife]

This is important to note. I was leery of the 57mm loft M&F that Lee suggested to me when I was shopping for an M&F but it has a dense 28mm knot and good backbone (FWIW, I face lather). Not as much as a boar but it's definitely not floppy at all.

This hair is probably the best backbone of any badger hair at higher lofts also, so that plays a role. The only thing that compares is black badger and some rougher pures.

 

[zethreal]

Obviously check out some pictures and such, but my recommendation from what I use and like would be a TGN Finest 24mm bulb at 46mm loft in whatever handle you like OR a M&F 26mm blonde badger bulb at 50mm loft (I'm not sure what his handle options are these days).

Ok. I've found the 24mm bulbs on TGN, but they only have a 67mm loft... to get a lower one, does it just have to get set in the handle lower or how does that work? ( I know, I'm clueless & an idiot when it comes to this. )

 

[SliceOfLife]

Yes, set it in the handle lower. Loft on a brush is where the hair exits the handle to the tips.