Hello,
Has anyone recently acquired a Lee Sabini brush? Please do share contact details / channel to obtain one.
Has anyone recently acquired a Lee Sabini brush? Please do share contact details / channel to obtain one.
Lee Sabini Brush
- Thread starter Grandmasteroogway
- Start date
What do you mean by Lee Sabini brush? This is a serious question; I'm not trolling your thread.
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I believe he was looking for a Lee Sabini sourced M&F brush. At least based on his posts in that thread.
Post in thread 'Morris & Forndran Blonde Badger' Morris & Forndran Blonde Badger - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/morris-forndran-blonde-badger.177098/post-12587584
Like this little, well used guy from 2012
Yeah, I see that. But it would still be useful to know what the OP's underlying assumptions are with regard to identity (i.e., what does it mean to be a so-called M&F and/or Lee Sabini brush) and desirability (e.g., vintage, provenance, handle-sourcing, knot-sourcing).
- Thread starter
- #5
I have read and heard about Mr Sabini’s skills and craft so much that I was keen to acquire one of his brushes. My internet searches brought me to this forum. Now I understand that it is no more possible to get one except for a used product on BST forums.
I know of three brands of shaving brushes Lee Sabini had some role in producing: Rooney, Morris & Forndran, and Paladin. And for his key contributions in connection with the production of those brushes, I'd happily nominate Lee for installment in the Shaving Brush Hall of Fame. But Lee's skills and craft were not applied in the actual making of either shaving-brush handles or knots. He was neither a machinist nor a knot-maker. I do believe he had a hand in setting knots from time to time, but they weren't knots that he formed and tied. He certainly knew what a good brush was, though. And his impact was profound.
Lee acquired an interest in Rooney in 2003. At that time there were still a couple of women in that company's employment who continued working for Lee in the same capacity for some time, but I don't know exactly how long. For handle production, Lee engaged FrankLynn Technology, which was owned and solely operated by Frank McInroy and his wife Lynn in Worthing, West Sussex. Frank and Lynn made and sold to Lee all of the Rooney Heritage handles until Frank's retirement in 2013. To the best of my knowledge and belief, they also made all of the M&F-labeled, shaving-brush handles with the exception of 1) some that were manufactured in India on a trial basis either in anticipation of or following Frank's retirement, 2) a few that I turned, which were intended to be labeled as Paladin, and 3) those produced by Brad Sears after Paladin Shaving discontinued collaboration with Lee in August of 2015.
I believe some of the Rooney and M&F brushes that were produced using handles designed and turned by Frank and Lynn McInroy were and remain among the best ever made by anyone. I give Lee full credit for his role in bringing about the creation of those brushes. That said, knot quality was highly inconsistent. If you want one of the best examples, you need to know what you're looking for and be prepared to navigate mountains of BS.
There are in fact some NOS M&Fs still out there. I know because I have a few. But they're not for sale.
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- Thread starter
- #7
Well Sir, thank you for sharing that wealth of information. Now I understand how all searches in this endeavour are hitting a dead end. I use Simpsons, Shavemac, Filslade, Oumo, Boti, Yaqi in two band and silvertip badgers. Bulb knots are good around 52 mm and fan at 50 mm. And I don’t know what is a blonde badger. On the subject of M&F brushes, Mr Sears refused, Paladin didn’t answer to my queries, Murphy Mcneil’s listings are all sold. You are so close to Paladin, may I request your help in this endeavour.
I was just on the site yesterday and there was still an option to order brushes from what I saw with a $50 deposit request when submitting an order... I think what has changed is the option for the knot is 27 or 29mm in a 2-band Finest Fan only. The only one sold out is the Knight...
**See below...
Maybe you can get an answer to your queries now!! My recollection, the wealth of knowledge you referenced, @ChiefBroom "WAS" Paladin!!
Fixed that for you!
When, where, and how did you address your queries to Paladin? I just looked back through email accounts and didn't find any recent references to M&F, Morris & Forndran, or Lee Sabini. I generally try to give respectful replies to all emails, but I've shifted my focus over the past couple of years (more time spent with grandkids, hiking, camping, guitar, books, etc.).
Again, what exactly are you seeking to acquire: any brush labeled Morris & Forndran, an M&F with a handle turned by Brad Sears and a knot made my Lee Sabini, an M&F with a handle made in England and a knot made by Lee Sabini, an M&F with a handle made in England and a knot of unknown and probably unknowable origin?
FWIW, there is no such thing in nature as a blonde badger. That's just a name that Lee came up with; it was a play on blondes have more fun.
I should clarify that I don't attribute the BS that has come to surround M&F brushes and Lee Sabini to Lee Sabini. Lee never claimed to me to be a handle turner or a knot maker. He didn't have a website, he didn't advertise, and I have no knowledge of him ever engaging in promotion. He told me once that he had never asked anyone to buy a brush from him. I don't think he ever considered the mythology that evolved in connection with Rooney, M&F, or his role in relation to brush-making to be his problem or responsibility.
Lee and I had something of a falling out a few years ago. That had mostly to do with Brad Sears' promotion of the M&F brand and my telling of Frank McInroy's role in making handles for Lee. I'm still fond of Lee and owe him a great dept of gratitude. I very recently heard a rumor that Lee had died. It's not true.
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Thanks for sharing that info @ChiefBroom, it was very interesting. I knew some of it but obviously not all.
Sorry to hear of your falling out with Lee, I know you guys were close at one time. I was never a fan of the Brad Sears branding of M&F brushes, regardless of unknown sourcing of his handles before that.
Blonde Badger always made me laugh. It will even more now with the backstory.
Sorry to hear of your falling out with Lee, I know you guys were close at one time. I was never a fan of the Brad Sears branding of M&F brushes, regardless of unknown sourcing of his handles before that.
Blonde Badger always made me laugh. It will even more now with the backstory.
I love my two blondes. they do perform well. 
- Thread starter
- #13
Thanks. I queried on ‘contact us’ at the bottom of paladinshaving.com. A knot made by Lee Sabini with a good handle (prefrebly M&F) is the hunt. I thought as much that amongst all the badger grades, there is nothing called Blonde Badger but good you clarified. Just curious, if he used a two band badger, what made his knots so exquisite? Was it the hair selection and processing? I don’t like gelled squishy feeling bristles.
- Thread starter
- #14
The 50 dollar deposit one is a BSSW handle and knot, not Lee Sabini.
Why are you so gang-ho to get a Lee Sabini brush??? There are so many good brushes makers out there they make better brushes than Lee ever did. I had a Blonde Badger (stupid name, though - just adds more confusion to "badger grading"), and sold it pretty fast, was really nothing special.
If you want a good brush, do some research here and you find a lot of options.
If you want a good brush, do some research here and you find a lot of options.
I received a brush a couple of years ago from mr Lee ( M&F handle by BS ) in the worst possible hygienic condition.
Really wow ! the dirtiest bristles I've seen in 25 years of buying brushes.
It looked like it had been used to clean a car engine …never seen something like this .
I didn't even like the quality of the “finest” knot .
Other than the email requesting payment, bad communication.
Money and wasted times ( a lot of time) . Bad experience
For sure during the golden era the situation was different … I don’t know
Really wow ! the dirtiest bristles I've seen in 25 years of buying brushes.
It looked like it had been used to clean a car engine …never seen something like this .
I didn't even like the quality of the “finest” knot .
Other than the email requesting payment, bad communication.
Money and wasted times ( a lot of time) . Bad experience
For sure during the golden era the situation was different … I don’t know
Lee seems to be taking a bit of a beating here, so here's my take on the brushes in question.
His brushes were great, regardless of who turned them, who made the knots etc, at least the ones I own(ed). As Ken pointed out, some he had more hand in than others. I have a few purchased directly from Lee, a group buy Chief in "Blonde" that you would be hard pressed to find anyone speak a word about negatively and a Paladin/M&F Blonde knotted brush. The Paladin started shedding a couple years go (hair or 2 each shave), but it's still amongst my favorites for personal reasons.
By the sounds of it, Lee is longer in business and I didn't care for the M&F/Brad Sears handoff of the name. Now that he's no longer in the brush business, I wouldn't spend too much time or money trying to source one. There are equally as good brush out there, maybe better, maybe worse. Part of the "appeal" to the Lee Sabini purchasing of M&F brushes, was the hoops you had to jump through, emails you had to send over and over and secret handshake you did to obtain one. It drove some made and made others happy.
If you just want a M&F branded brush and don't care about who/where it was made etc (per above), keep an eye out on the Buy & Sell. They do pop up from time to time.
His brushes were great, regardless of who turned them, who made the knots etc, at least the ones I own(ed). As Ken pointed out, some he had more hand in than others. I have a few purchased directly from Lee, a group buy Chief in "Blonde" that you would be hard pressed to find anyone speak a word about negatively and a Paladin/M&F Blonde knotted brush. The Paladin started shedding a couple years go (hair or 2 each shave), but it's still amongst my favorites for personal reasons.
By the sounds of it, Lee is longer in business and I didn't care for the M&F/Brad Sears handoff of the name. Now that he's no longer in the brush business, I wouldn't spend too much time or money trying to source one. There are equally as good brush out there, maybe better, maybe worse. Part of the "appeal" to the Lee Sabini purchasing of M&F brushes, was the hoops you had to jump through, emails you had to send over and over and secret handshake you did to obtain one. It drove some made and made others happy.
If you just want a M&F branded brush and don't care about who/where it was made etc (per above), keep an eye out on the Buy & Sell. They do pop up from time to time.
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Thanks for the reply. Please send me another email using the same link so I can use your address to search for the previous email(s). Or you can send me your email address via PM here.
So, what you want is a knot made my Lee Sabini. But there is no such thing. Full stop.
Lee tried his hand at making knots in the beginning but was unsuccessful. Lee told me that himself. And Frank McInroy confirmed it. My understanding from Frank is that in the beginning Lee used two women (he called them "the girls") who had been employed by Rooney prior to 2003 when Lee became involved with that company and brand. At that time both women were advancing in middle age, and Lee needed to find an alternative source of knots. According to Frank, Lee made three trips to China to work that out and establish acceptable quality control. When I bought my first M&F, I just assumed Lee himself was a master brush-maker. But in the course of running the 2013 M&F group buy on B&B Lee told me about the girls and he also mentioned a machinist named Frank who was involved in handle making.
My understanding in connection with the 2013 group buy and all Kansas City - London Paladins (2014-2015) was that the two women from Rooney made all of the knots (i.e., in England) and that Lee set them in the handles himself. I lost some confidence in that regard in 2015. That was a factor in our decision to source knots directly from China and set them ourselves.
I tracked down Frank McInroy in late 2018. I talked with him and his wife by phone a few times and I have about 150 printed pages of emails exchanged with them. Frank confirmed that Lee did not make knots and also that knots were sourced from China. BUT THEN LEE NEVER, EVER CLAIMED TO ME THAT HE MADE KNOTS. Others made that assumption; I cannot say on what basis because I don't know. But that became the myth, and people who buy into myths often don't want to have them busted.
The Rooney and M&F shaving brushes produced under Lee's direction were legendary (and I would say rightly so) before Brad Sears got involved with Lee in 2016 (as I recall). Brad Sears seized the myth of Lee the Master Knot and Brush-maker and amped it up (I'd say to 11). I finally confronted Lee about that after Brad had a bad reaction to Frank McInroy having shared some CAD files with me. I put the question straight to Lee whether he was personally making knots for the BS M&Fs. He said no and that he'd never made that claim.
There's a much longer story to be told, but the bottom line is this: if you want an M&F shaving brush with a knot made by Lee Sabini, you can't have one (absent a miracle) because such a thing has never existed.
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With regard to your question about hair, you might find this old post interesting: What does it mean to be "Finest" - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/what-does-it-mean-to-be-finest.325911/.
And as to Lee's mystique, see this one, which I posted over 11 years ago, before the 2013 M&F Group Buy and before it ever crossed my mind to make a brush: lee sabini - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/lee-sabini.328142/page-2.
I think I found your two emails (one from 2/13 and the other from 2/23). They were both in the Spam folder, which I rarely check. My guess is that was a result of your having email at front (i.e., email******@gmail.com). In any case, I'm sorry I missed catching them. But at the same time, I'm kinda glad you posted here. One one hand, I think shaving is one of the most honest things a man can do. You stand in front of a mirror, you shave, the results speak for themselves. You lose focus, use bad product, haven't achieved mastery, you get a crappy shave and sometimes bleed. On the other hand, I can't think of any product space that has generated more BS than shaving going back to the 19th century. Badger & Blade stands as a bulwark against bull**** in shaving. Unfortunately, however, vendors and makers, who are often in the best position to identify BS, usually are not in a good position to call it out without incurring unwelcome consequences. We all love something in common, but the space can also be very tribal.
Is anyone else enjoying the shaving brush history in this thread? I'll never tire reading it.
