Lack of Tallow in Shaving Soaps

[Saltchuck]

There has been much discussion in this forum about shaving soaps being reformulated to exclude tallow. Mostly the blame has been placed on pressure from those who oppose the use of animal products. Here's another theory:

I happened to catch one of those "how do they make it" programs on cable TV the other day, and they were talking about how bio-diesel is made. I had always thought it was made from vegetable oils, but the program pointed out that tallow is also used. So maybe the reformulation is driven by price competition: the makers of bio-diesel outbidding the makers of soaps? Or maybe it's a matter of volume? Why sell a few hundreds of pounds of tallow to the likes of G. F. Trumper when you can sell it by the ton to the folks who make bio-diesel?

 

[JPDyson]

Bio-deisel is just about as varietal as soap is - it's not like there's just one recipe. Sure, some folks are using animal fats - but I have a friend who strongly opposes it (soap, fuel, whatever) and his co-op is all used veggie oils.

Did you hear of a major oil company is using tallow for a commercially available bio-deisel? Otherwise, I don't think the impact would be all that great.

 

[steveclarkus]

Note: Glycerin is a by-product of ethanol production - double whammy.

I think it's the green idiots though.

 

[Shavely Manden]

I think it's the green idiots though.

I'm not so sure...I mean, crunchy hippie types definitely wouldn't approve of a tallow-based soap, but I doubt there're enough of those around to seriously affect soap markets. I bet it's just that most people don't associate tallow with a high-quality soap -- they're more likely to think "eww, spreading lard on my face?" Vegetable oils probably bring to mind spas or massage oils (and olive oil in particular is a bit of a fad), whereas tallow probably has more connotations of old-fashioned cooking...great eating, but not the model of cleanliness. Remember, AoS sells tallow soaps but consistently denies that they're tallow based, instead saying they're "formulated with glycerin and coconut oil".

ED: I kinda doubt that glycerin being an ethanol byproduct would have any affect, given that tallow soaps do contain glycerin. "Glycerin-based" is a misnomer for vegetable-based traditional soaps and melt-and-pour soaps.

 

[Leche]

I think it's the green idiots though.

Maybe, but vegetable oils tend to be more environmentally destructive.

 

[Vlad]

I'm not so sure...I mean, crunchy hippie types definitely wouldn't approve of a tallow-based soap, but I doubt there're enough of those around to seriously affect soap markets. I bet it's just that most people don't associate tallow with a high-quality soap -- they're more likely to think "eww, spreading lard on my face?" Vegetable oils probably bring to mind spas or massage oils (and olive oil in particular is a bit of a fad), whereas tallow probably has more connotations of old-fashioned cooking...great eating, but not the model of cleanliness. Remember, AoS sells tallow soaps but consistently denies that they're tallow based, instead saying they're "formulated with glycerin and coconut oil".

ED: I kinda doubt that glycerin being an ethanol byproduct would have any affect, given that tallow soaps do contain glycerin. "Glycerin-based" is a misnomer for vegetable-based traditional soaps and melt-and-pour soaps.

You know, this is so obvious now that you say it. WHY HAS NO ONE THOUGHT OF THIS BEFORE?!

 

[Brush_with_Fame]

...asking why the change in formulation.

I'll be sure to post their response.

Personally, I love both versions.
Trumpers Sandlewood in Talllow is excellent,
but would never trade it for my veggie Rose!

 

[beginish]

Right now, biodiesel is too much of a niche market to have much impact on much of anything. Tallow soap is likely going the way of the dodo because of consumer pressures against using animals for this, and the threat of losing royal warrants in the UK. Thank goodness Valobra (and AoS and C&S) are not made in England. Viva Italia!

 

[drumana]

I'm not so sure...I mean, crunchy hippie types definitely wouldn't approve of a tallow-based soap

Speaking for myself (a somewhat crunchy hippie - the clean, responsible and well shaven type), the deforestation and exploitation due to palm oil plantations scare me more than cow fat. I have no problem with tallow.

 

[AJMiami]

Right now, biodiesel is too much of a niche market to have much impact on much of anything. Tallow soap is likely going the way of the dodo because of consumer pressures against using animals for this, and the threat of losing royal warrants in the UK. Thank goodness Valobra (and AoS and C&S) are not made in England. Viva Italia!

And Germany

Tabac, Irisch Moos, and Palmolive

 

[KeNd0]

A few months ago I came across something on the web that claimed that bio-fuels were cause of the tallow price increase, and this increase in costs was the reason behind the reformulations. I wish I could remember where I read itIt may have just been someones opinion on a forum or blog. Curious to hear what Trumper's response will be.

 

[California Cajun]

There's something wrong with everything. Honestly.

All I want to do is shave smoothly and comfortably.

And really, the article that led me to this forum in the first place (see the link in my signature on what got me started retro shaving) is saying that WE are taking the environmentally friendly approach.

Is what we're doing really worse than canned goo and a cartridge razor that is filling up our garbage dumps? All we're doing is washing a little soap down the drain and perhaps throwing away one thin blade after several shaves.

 

[Gustav]

I am not convinced by the tallow-getting-more-expensive argument because that increase should be felt in the cheap tallow soaps such as Palmolive. The environmental craze has now been going on for some time in Europe and palmolive sticks still sell for the same 0.95 € at the drug store.

 

[DavyRay]

Cite me some references. Otherwise you are all just blaming random groups of people you don't like.


The only reason for reformulating without tallow is to avoid the EU requirement to document the tallow sources, to make sure that the tallow products do not come from diseased cows. The europeans are trying to avoid mad cow disease.

Blame the hippies if you like, but try your best to come up with a citation from some source anywhere.

 

[kap49]

Cite me some references. Otherwise you are all just blaming random groups of people you don't like.


The only reason for reformulating without tallow is to avoid the EU requirement to document the tallow sources, to make sure that the tallow products do not come from diseased cows. The europeans are trying to avoid mad cow disease.

Blame the hippies if you like, but try your best to come up with a citation from some source anywhere.

Well put.

 

[Gunky]

Cite me some references. Otherwise you are all just blaming random groups of people you don't like.


The only reason for reformulating without tallow is to avoid the EU requirement to document the tallow sources, to make sure that the tallow products do not come from diseased cows. The europeans are trying to avoid mad cow disease.

Blame the hippies if you like, but try your best to come up with a citation from some source anywhere.

well is there any evidence linking tallow to mad cow?

btw i just bought Arko and think this is all I want...it has tallow and is from Turkey..I don't want any diseases!

 

[mmack66]

I am not convinced by the tallow-getting-more-expensive argument because that increase should be felt in the cheap tallow soaps such as Palmolive. The environmental craze has now been going on for some time in Europe and palmolive sticks still sell for the same 0.95 € at the drug store.

+1. Most of the bar soaps in grocery/drug/department stores are made with tallow.

 

[guenron]

Cite me some references. Otherwise you are all just blaming random groups of people you don't like.


The only reason for reformulating without tallow is to avoid the EU requirement to document the tallow sources, to make sure that the tallow products do not come from diseased cows. The europeans are trying to avoid mad cow disease.

Blame the hippies if you like, but try your best to come up with a citation from some source anywhere.

Bravo for the Sound of Reason! For those that like evidence about Jakob Kreutzfeld disease, mad cow disease as manifested in humans, go study the class of prions and how they play in the frightening role of zoonoses.. Go figure why American beef has been excluded from several (LUCRATIVE) Asian markets. (Gotta' make that extra buck fattening them up on awful!). And we whine about Chinese products poisoning us? At least the PRC government makes the criminals pay for their own bullets before the execution.

 

[kingfisher]

well is there any evidence linking tallow to mad cow?

....

No.

 

[goby]

Cite me some references. Otherwise you are all just blaming random groups of people you don't like.


The only reason for reformulating without tallow is to avoid the EU requirement to document the tallow sources, to make sure that the tallow products do not come from diseased cows. The europeans are trying to avoid mad cow disease.

Blame the hippies if you like, but try your best to come up with a citation from some source anywhere.

We have discussed this so many times. It is simple. Mad Cow's Disease, and the majority of people don't want tallow. I called Penhaligan's and that is what they told me, and it makes sense. Give the people what they want, and the majority of people want tallow-free soap. IMHO tallow is overrated. There are great tallow soaps and crappy tallow soaps.

BTW, I love how many of you think it's ok to make derogatory comments about those of us who choose not to use animal products. I am not a "crunchy hippie type." Please don't call me one.