Knot loft and width questions

[atomheartmother]

All things otherwise equal with a brush, what will the differences be between a knot width that is, say, 22mm vs 24mm. What about knot lofts? Say the differences between 45mm and 49mm.

Would it be longer loft = floppier than shorter

Wider knot stiffer and holds more water/lather than smaller knot?

How much difference would a few mm make?

 

[NorthernSoul]

A larger knot paints a larger area of the face. The brush holds more lather and consumes more soap. Too large and you will be painting half your face with one stroke. Gets kind of awkward.

Shorter lofts with the same hair will be firmer. Longer lofts will hold more lather, and cover more area, as the bristles splay out.

One other thing, is loft should be more or less proportional to width. A smaller knot should have a correspondingly smaller loft.

Remembering your Geometry, the volume of a 3-dimensional solid increases with the square of the dimensions. It is not a straight linear relationship.

 

[EclipseRedRing]

A 22mm knot has an area of 3.801cm², a 24mm knot has an area of 4.524cm², this is a difference of 19.0213% so almost a fifth more hair for an extra 2mm diameter. All things being equal, for my taste, a knot to loft ratio of 2:1 gives the backbone I prefer, i.e. a 24mm knot with a 48mm loft. A higher loft will give less backbone, in other words be floppier, and will have a larger face feel because the knot will bloom more, and shorter lofts give increased backbone, and a smaller face feel.

There are other factors which are just as important, such as hair/fibre type, density, knot shape (bulb, fan, hybrid etc.) as well as the presence of any glue bump.

A larger knot will hold more lather which you may consider a good thing or you may not. Larger knots will require and use more soap or cream. Using a smaller knot might make more precise lather application easier. Small knots may require reloading with soap after the first or second pass, some people do not like to do so although it has never bothered me.

Brushes are a very personal thing and what suits one may not suit another, even two seemingly identical brushes can perform differently, there is no substitute for trying a few and seeing what you like best

 

[atomheartmother]

A 22mm knot has an area of 3.801cm², a 24mm knot has an area of 4.524cm², this is a difference of 19.0213% so almost a fifth more hair for an extra 2mm diameter. All things being equal, for my taste, a knot to loft ratio of 2:1 gives the backbone I prefer, i.e. a 24mm knot with a 48mm loft. A higher loft will give less backbone, in other words be floppier, and will have a larger face feel because the knot will bloom more, and shorter lofts give increased backbone, and a smaller face feel.

There are other factors which are just as important, such as hair/fibre type, density, knot shape (bulb, fan, hybrid etc.) as well as the presence of any glue bump.

A larger knot will hold more lather which you may consider a good thing or you may not. Larger knots will require and use more soap or cream. Using a smaller knot might make more precise lather application easier. Small knots may require reloading with soap after the first or second pass, some people do not like to do so although it has never bothered me.

Brushes are a very personal thing and what suits one may not suit another, even two seemingly identical brushes can perform differently, there is no substitute for trying a few and seeing what you like best

Wow! Thanks so much. Very informative and data driven. All the posts, actually.

Just so I understand:

I’m looking at two brushes (Semogue Torga Mistura C3 and C5). They have the same loft of 50mm. The C3 has a 22mm knot and the C5 has a 24mm knot. So, one different would be that the C3 might be a bit firmer and would also hold less larther. The converse might be true for the C5. Do I have it?

 

[EclipseRedRing]

Wow! Thanks so much. Very informative and data driven. All the posts, actually.

Just so I understand:

I’m looking at two brushes (Semogue Torga Mistura C3 and C5). They have the same loft of 50mm. The C3 has a 22mm knot and the C5 has a 24mm knot. So, one different would be that the C3 might be a bit firmer and would also hold less larther. The converse might be true for the C5. Do I have it?

Semogue make excellent brushes, I own several but have not tried the Mistura which is I think a mix of boar and badger. They are highly regarded and either of these would be a fine choice. If you are able to try them then I would pick the one that feels best in your hand. I suggest doing reading some review specific to the Mistura - take a look here:

Semogue SOC Mistura | Your Impressions & Mine

My Semogue SOC Mistura arrived yesterday. The SOC is my third brush with a knot which is a mixture of badger and boar. The other two are the little lather monster but very scritchy Omega Mixed Midget, and the 26mm Maggard 70/30 knot which I put in an old Thater beehive handle. I have about...

www.badgerandblade.com

The Mistura Torga is an underrated gem

We have had lots of talk here - much of it in this wonderful thread - about the Semogue Owners' Club Mistura brush/knot. It's a marvelous brush that I have used more than any other over the last two-plus years. However, there is a Mistura that is talked about as an SOC-adjacent now and then but...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[atomheartmother]

Wow! Thanks so much. Very informative and data driven. All the posts, actually.

Just so I understand:

I’m looking at two brushes (Semogue Torga Mistura C3 and C5). They have the same loft of 50mm. The C3 has a 22mm knot and the C5 has a 24mm knot. So, one different would be that the C3 might be a bit firmer and would also hold less larther. The converse might be true for the C5. Do I have it?

Wow! Thanks so much. Very informative and data driven. All the posts, actually.

Just so I understand:

I’m looking at two brushes (Semogue Torga Mistura C3 and C5). They have the same loft of 50mm. The C3 has a 22mm knot and the C5 has a 24mm knot. So, one different would be that the C3 might be a bit firmer and would also hold less larther. The converse might be true for the C5. Do I have it?

Actually meant to say that the C3 might be LESS firm than thr C5 since the knot is thinner. (I can’t seem to figure out how to edit my other post)

 

[Balin]

Actually meant to say that the C3 might be LESS firm than thr C5 since the knot is thinner. (I can’t seem to figure out how to edit my other post)

That sounds right to me!

 

[NorthernSoul]

Wow! Thanks so much. Very informative and data driven. All the posts, actually.

Just so I understand:

I’m looking at two brushes (Semogue Torga Mistura C3 and C5). They have the same loft of 50mm. The C3 has a 22mm knot and the C5 has a 24mm knot. So, one different would be that the C3 might be a bit firmer and would also hold less larther. The converse might be true for the C5. Do I have it?

This picture from the BST may help you visualize.

Left - C3 Finest
Center - C3 Mistura
Right - C5 Mistura

I agree with Richard (@EclipseRedRing) that you should also consider the comfort and fit of the handle.

Also, since you thought the Omega Jade had too much backbone, you may want to consider the SOC Mistura with 53mm loft over the shorter loft brushes.

 

[BigJ]

So many variables (as noted above)!!

I prefer to face lather hard soaps and my preference is smaller/mid sized knots (roughly 20-24 mm). For me an approximate 2:1 ratio of loft to width works best. But that depends on the hair type and also the brush shape.

Now you ’need’ to try enough options to determine where your preferences lie!!

 

[steve638]

I do know the difference between my 24 and 26mm brushes is VERY noticable which if you told me that prior to getting the 26 I would have rolled my eyes. To me the 26 is almost overkill for my face and the amount of lather I use