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Ka-bar union cutlery co

Luc

"To Wiki or Not To Wiki, That's The Question".
I know it looks savvy! :biggrin: No idea on the origin but nice!
 
I have a Ka-Bar pocket knife - very nice quality, American made....I had no idea they made straight razors too. That is very nice!
 
I don't think the box goes with the razor.

The older K bar stuff is pretty good. They made knives for the military. I'm not impressed with their modern stuff though. As far as that razor goes it would depend on where its made.
 
The box and razor probably go together. Tidioute Cutlery moved to Olean NY and became Union Razor then became Union Cutlery then became Ka-Bar. But there was a period in the 20's and early 30's during their "Union Cutlery" phase when "Ka-Bar" was just one of their trademarks used on a variety of products, and had not yet become associated so strongly with their famous WWII fighting knife.

The company existed in name only from 1960 - the late 70's, and only really came back into any sort of prominence in the late 90's. Their new stuff is pretty soft.
 
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I don't think the box goes with the razor.

The older K bar stuff is pretty good. They made knives for the military. I'm not impressed with their modern stuff though. As far as that razor goes it would depend on where its made.

I'm sure the box goes with this razor. There are no hone marks and it looks to have never been used, just some finger prints and a little surface rust in a few spots.
Thanks for all the info
 
Nice looking razor .

Question to all , did the manufacturers use plastic (for the sheath) back in those days ? As we know everything now is . Just wondering if highball stumbled onto a Chinese copy of the Ka-Bar ???? The box looks fabulous . Almost to good to be true ?

Do you collectors usually find razors razors with a "plastic" sheath , from the 1920's or when ever this was made ?

Again just wondering ....... Anything and everything of value is copied in the Asian market these days . Guys that live overseas know what I mean .

And look how fresh the lettering is on the box . And how fresh that star stamp is ? Still nice and deep in the surface .



No offense to you highball .


cityjim
 
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I don't have any information about the razor, but the company is still in Olean, NY churning out combat and utility knives. The company is know owned by the Cutco Corporation. The Kabar group was aquired by what was at the time known as Alcas Cutlery (a joint venture between Alcoa and Case Cutlery in 1949) in 1996. The name was changed for Alcas to Cutco this year as part of their 60th anniversary celebration.

You may try going to www.kabar.com and surf to their contact us page. Perhaps with a little information about the razor and your pic of it they mey be able to shed a little light on it.
 
Nice looking razor .

Question to all , did the manufacturers use plastic (for the sheath) back in those days ? As we know everything now is . Just wondering if highball stumbled onto a Chinese copy of the Ka-Bar ???? The box looks fabulous . Almost to good to be true ?

Do you collectors usually find razors razors with a "plastic" sheath , from the 1920's or when ever this was made ?

Again just wondering ....... Anything and everything of value is copied in the Asian market these days . Guys that live overseas know what I mean .

And look how fresh the lettering is on the box . And how fresh that star stamp is ? Still nice and deep in the surface .



No offense to you highball .


cityjim
I found this one on ebay, the seller said it was from a estate sale, anyhow for what it cost me, I think the chinese would have lost money
 
Nice looking razor .

Question to all , did the manufacturers use plastic (for the sheath) back in those days ? As we know everything now is . Just wondering if highball stumbled onto a Chinese copy of the Ka-Bar ???? The box looks fabulous . Almost to good to be true ?

Do you collectors usually find razors razors with a "plastic" sheath , from the 1920's or when ever this was made ?

Again just wondering ....... Anything and everything of value is copied in the Asian market these days . Guys that live overseas know what I mean .

And look how fresh the lettering is on the box . And how fresh that star stamp is ? Still nice and deep in the surface .



No offense to you highball .


cityjim


Looks fine to me. My near-mint Union Spike has a similarly nice box. Mine's cardboard with some shiny coating on it. If the razor hasn't been used, and has been kept stored someplace safe then it's not unusual for the box to be in outstanding condition.
 
Looks fine to me. My near-mint Union Spike has a similarly nice box. Mine's cardboard with some shiny coating on it. If the razor hasn't been used, and has been kept stored someplace safe then it's not unusual for the box to be in outstanding condition.


Ok fine , unused stored in a dark room/drawer . Stored in a vacuum tube maybe ........

Old paper (cardboard) turns yellow and moves around with humidity . And for a razor and box that was say 60 plus years old ?? Come on man . People would of stacked other items on top scratching up the surface . Many other things that could of taken place in 60 plus years . See what I mean ?

All I'm saying is the box doesn't add up and show 60 plus years of age . And knowing there are copies of anything/everything costing money made in China and so on out there . Guess knowbody understands what I'm talking about . 60+ year old razor with a 6 minute old box .


cityjim
 
Ok fine , unused stored in a dark room/drawer . Stored in a vacuum tube maybe ........

Old paper (cardboard) turns yellow and moves around with humidity . And for a razor and box that was say 60 plus years old ?? Come on man . People would of stacked other items on top scratching up the surface . Many other things that could of taken place in 60 plus years . See what I mean ?

All I'm saying is the box doesn't add up and show 60 plus years of age . And knowing there are copies of anything/everything costing money made in China and so on out there . Guess knowbody understands what I'm talking about . 60+ year old razor with a 6 minute old box .


cityjim

In short, your suspicion towards the OP's find is unwarranted given the available evidence.

I have never seen a cardboard razor box that had turned yellow, only a few that have mold or mildew, and I have several that have not shifted or warped to any significant degree - generally the ones that have also show lots of signs of wear and tear. How much paper is subject to yellowing depends on its manufacturing process and exposure to temperature and light. Modern (cheap) manufacturing processes produce paper with a much greater tendency to yellowing than the older manufacturing processes, though this can be eliminated with some additional processing of the paper. Before the Kraft Process became the dominant manufacturing method, paper didn't yellow much; if you go to a library that has old books you'll notice that the really old books aren't yellowed (I first noticed this in the Texas A&M library). Also, cardboard and paper aren't necessarily made with the same process; I believe the Kraft process only really started being used for cardboard after WWII. I was reading a few decads ago where the Library of Congress was going through their yellowing papers and deacidifying them with some gas treatment process, and I've got one book (oddly enough written by a former Librarian of Congress) that was treated this way; after 20+ years it is still unyellowed. But this was only needed for books printed in the last 80 yrs or so; the papers printed before that did not need to be stabilized.

If the OP's razor and box were a one-off occurrence or a recent phenomonon, or if the Chinese or Pakistanis had been caught making forgeries of well-known razor brands recently, then more suspicion might be warranted.

But the OP's find is not particularly unusual. 100+yr old razors in NOS condition turn up reasonably frequently, and in Mint or near-mint condition fairly often - including boxes that look brand spanking new, no discoloration, scratching, or other signs of wear. Heck I've seen multiple 1800-era razors turn up for sale still sealed in their original packaging, never been opened. One of my friends bought one (a W&B) and when he opened it the box and razor looked like the day they left the factory. And while the Chinese and Pakistanis are famous for making junk razors and claiming they're solingen or german or "vintage-style", I haven't seen any outright forgeries by them.

Edit: I've attached a photo of my own Union Spike razor and box, from the same general time period.
 
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The box and razor probably go together. Tidioute Cutlery moved to Olean NY and became Union Razor then became Union Cutlery then became Ka-Bar. But there was a period in the 20's and early 30's during their "Union Cutlery" phase when "Ka-Bar" was just one of their trademarks used on a variety of products, and had not yet become associated so strongly with their famous WWII fighting knife.

The company existed in name only from 1960 - the late 70's, and only really came back into any sort of prominence in the late 90's. Their new stuff is pretty soft.

Thanks for the nice summary of the history of the company that made this razor. I grew up near Tidioute and, although I wore a Ka-Bar knife for years, I had no idea that it started off so close to where I used to live. I think that I'll go by when I'm home next and see if I can figure out where everything used to be. Thanks!
 
O

oldbladesman

I was just researching the Union Razor Cutlery Co.
In 1902, Tidioute Cutlery Co. was bought out & renamed "Union Razor Cutlery Co." and actually stayed in Tidioute, PA.
The Union Razor Cutlery Company went thru a name change in 1909 to "Union Cutlery Company", dropping the "Razor" to better reflect it's growing cutlery line. The company was still in Tidioute, PA. at this time.
Then in 1911, the company moved to Olean, NY. for better tax breaks and a more modern plant.
 
I can't make out the number on the scales in the Pic I do know that my #34 will run with the big dogs for shaving comfort....
 
Ok fine , unused stored in a dark room/drawer . Stored in a vacuum tube maybe ........

Old paper (cardboard) turns yellow and moves around with humidity . And for a razor and box that was say 60 plus years old ?? Come on man . People would of stacked other items on top scratching up the surface . Many other things that could of taken place in 60 plus years . See what I mean ?

All I'm saying is the box doesn't add up and show 60 plus years of age . And knowing there are copies of anything/everything costing money made in China and so on out there . Guess knowbody understands what I'm talking about . 60+ year old razor with a 6 minute old box .


cityjim

hmm i have razor in boxes that are as old and in some cases older that are in as good condition and i also have razors that are half as old that, that are stored well (not in a vacuum tube:rolleyes:) that i fully intend to keep in there current condition for atleast the next 30 years, being 18 i should get the chance to :lol:
 
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