Is anyone on their church's security team? Do you carry a weapon in that capacity? If so, what are your training requirements?
Is anyone on their church's security team?
- Thread starter nortac
- Start date
Funny you should mention this. I tried to put together a program for my pastor, who is not anti-gun at all, and he balked. He was pastor in an inner city Philadelphia church and used to love it when uniformed police officers showed up - just for Mass, not as security - and he thinks having concealed carriers in church is a great thing.
But it’s too divisive, he could not stand up a security team secretly, and the Karens would go bat guano crazy over it. But I did put together some ideas for training a team.
1. Minimum is concealed carry permit with a legal course in use of deadly force.
2. Team members would have to qualify at a range semi-annually at a minimum. I’m an NRA certified Range Safety Officer and offered to conduct the qualification shoots. I also offered to do it quarterly for those who wanted it, but suggested semi-annual as sufficient.
3. Minimum of competing in one IDPA match per year (more encouraged). I didn’t want folks who have only punched holes in paper, and while nobody is shooting back at you, at least in an IDPA match you need to move safely with a weapon, use cover, and be accurate under some time pressure.
4. Pastor would approve all team members, we could not “recruit”, per se, I did not want any cranks or wannabe ‘operators’. We would float names past the pastor for approval before approaching the individual about being on the team.
5. I would write up policies and procedures for him. Nothing too complex, but some structure needed to be in place.
He loved all my ideas, but did not want to have a formal team because it would be divisive, we are not in a particularly “red” area. In the end, he just encouraged me to encourage my friends who shoot to practice, go with me to an IDPA match once in a while, and carry in church and leave it at that.
But it’s too divisive, he could not stand up a security team secretly, and the Karens would go bat guano crazy over it. But I did put together some ideas for training a team.
1. Minimum is concealed carry permit with a legal course in use of deadly force.
2. Team members would have to qualify at a range semi-annually at a minimum. I’m an NRA certified Range Safety Officer and offered to conduct the qualification shoots. I also offered to do it quarterly for those who wanted it, but suggested semi-annual as sufficient.
3. Minimum of competing in one IDPA match per year (more encouraged). I didn’t want folks who have only punched holes in paper, and while nobody is shooting back at you, at least in an IDPA match you need to move safely with a weapon, use cover, and be accurate under some time pressure.
4. Pastor would approve all team members, we could not “recruit”, per se, I did not want any cranks or wannabe ‘operators’. We would float names past the pastor for approval before approaching the individual about being on the team.
5. I would write up policies and procedures for him. Nothing too complex, but some structure needed to be in place.
He loved all my ideas, but did not want to have a formal team because it would be divisive, we are not in a particularly “red” area. In the end, he just encouraged me to encourage my friends who shoot to practice, go with me to an IDPA match once in a while, and carry in church and leave it at that.
- Thread starter
- #3
I just submitted my application for my church's security team, I have yet to have a formal interview, so I don't have all the facts about it yet. In the state of Louisiana, you are required to get 8 hours of tactical training yearly in order to CCW in a church, so there's that. I don't know about frequency of, or requirements for, qualification shoots. On the application form they do ask how many hours a year you spend practicing safe gun handling and accurate shooting? I don't know if they have any internal training or if it is all outsourced/ do it on your own.
I to am an NRA certified RSO and basic pistol instructor. Not knowing what the organization already has, I don't know what potential role I might play in the future.
I to am an NRA certified RSO and basic pistol instructor. Not knowing what the organization already has, I don't know what potential role I might play in the future.
There are no special requirements for church security teams in PA. I just did a little reading, and came up with those ideas on my own figuring we should have at least some minimum training requirement and I just put together what I thought was reasonable, but not too onerous. In addition to not having wannabee operators, I also didn't want someone who got a gun, got their CCW and who has not been to a range in years. One ought to have some commitment to a minimum amount of regular practice.
Have fun, report back on what you think of your church's team. As an NRA instructor, I'm sure you'll get on it. I'm curious what others are doing. It's a shame our pastor took a pass, but I can understand his not wanting to poke that hornets nest, I guess.
Edit: I do carry in church. And always. The chances of being involved in a defensive shooting are still vanishingly small, IMO, but they are at least an order of magnitude higher than they were, say five years ago.
Have fun, report back on what you think of your church's team. As an NRA instructor, I'm sure you'll get on it. I'm curious what others are doing. It's a shame our pastor took a pass, but I can understand his not wanting to poke that hornets nest, I guess.
Edit: I do carry in church. And always. The chances of being involved in a defensive shooting are still vanishingly small, IMO, but they are at least an order of magnitude higher than they were, say five years ago.
- Thread starter
- #5
@JCinPA , I like your ideas. I will be inviting any interested church team members to my outdoor range's weekly RSO competitions. These are like simplified IDPA courses with relatively low round counts and not too much awkward positions, as most of us are old geezers and don't move as well as we used to!
If you haven't tried an RDS yet, now is the time to do it. I'm a fair hand with a pistol, but with the 507C green dot...daaaang. One note, it is a bit different- you want to learn your hold over/under, e.g., if you zero at 25, how high do I have to hold at 45-50 (across a parking lot) or more likely, how low when I'm 5-7 yards. Obviously, this is true of irons also, it's just much easier to note with the RDS.
- Thread starter
- #7
I have an RDS on a couple of .22 LR target pistols and I tried putting an RMR on my Glock 19, but the 22 degree grip angle made it too hard to find the dot quickly, so I went back to irons. I'm in the process of shopping for an RDS ready pistol now, probably going for some version of the SIG P320.
I'm considering an ACSS reticle, it has built in hold over capability and I think a chevron would be less affected by my astigmatism.
I'm considering an ACSS reticle, it has built in hold over capability and I think a chevron would be less affected by my astigmatism.
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Ours is unofficial. "Those who say do not know. Those who know do not say."
Monsignor says he doesn't want to know who's packing, and he says it with a big smile. I don't either. Once I was totally shocked to see one of my neighbors at the range with an AR. It's an hour's drive away. Said to him, "Hey Buddy, didn't know you're a shooter."
He shrugged. "I don't advertise." Had some high-end tools, too.
AA
Monsignor says he doesn't want to know who's packing, and he says it with a big smile. I don't either. Once I was totally shocked to see one of my neighbors at the range with an AR. It's an hour's drive away. Said to him, "Hey Buddy, didn't know you're a shooter."
He shrugged. "I don't advertise." Had some high-end tools, too.
AA
Mr. Shavington
Knows Hot Turkish Toilets
Forgive my ignorance, but why do American churches need armed security? Are they targeted for robberies or attacks? Here in England nobody has guns and the only people who go to church are little old ladies on meagre pensions. There certainly won’t be any banknotes in the collection tray.
Attacks on churches have increased in the USA and Canada quite noticeably in the last handful of years, especially against Catholic churches.
- Thread starter
- #11
Increased threats of anti-christian, anti-semetic attacks. The more prominent the presence of church goers, the greater the threat. There is a significant rise in religious participation despite the medias' downplaying of same.
The Reason in USA HOUSES OF WORSHIP need security is Bad people have access to firearms.
There have been several incident were some Nut Job entered, a Church and killed many people with firearm.
I have friend from UK he says UK even has Police with Firearms in 2024.
Bad people do not care about laws. One local Christian Chuch friend belongs to, hire OFF DUTY UNIFORM COPS. This is expensive, but let’s say they have the money to pay Off Duty Uniformed Police.
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Our church started a team called 'roving ushers' a couple of years ago which I'm a member of. When worship service starts, we lock all exterior doors and train our eyeballs to parking lot and all outside perimeter areas to spot potential incoming threats before they reach the church. The only thing we are required to carry are radios so we can warn nursery, Sunday schools, etc. and other team members of a potential threat so we can close and lock any interior doors and take any other defensive action required.
Carry policy is optional for team members based on personal preference. Ironic since our Mennonite denomination traditionally has a 'pacifist' doctrine, but they don't really push it. I choose not to carry at this time even though I'm a hunter, gun owner and US Army veteran. I believe most of the team are unarmed but a few are retired military and carry.
In Kansas, there is no requirement for CCW training at this time. Anybody can carry except in specifically restricted areas such as hospitals, courthouse, etc.
Carry policy is optional for team members based on personal preference. Ironic since our Mennonite denomination traditionally has a 'pacifist' doctrine, but they don't really push it. I choose not to carry at this time even though I'm a hunter, gun owner and US Army veteran. I believe most of the team are unarmed but a few are retired military and carry.
In Kansas, there is no requirement for CCW training at this time. Anybody can carry except in specifically restricted areas such as hospitals, courthouse, etc.
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Access to weapons and self defense is not needs based. Our Bill of Rights recognizes the right to firearms. The Second Amendment in the Bill of Rights does not grant but recognizes the pre-existing natural God given right to defend oneself. This is a key concept and the second most important right we cherish after the right to free speech including criticism of government and/or expression of views some may find offensive.
There have been many incidents of church shootings, violent attacks, and arson over the years. American churches are often attended by families with children, extended families sometimes multi-generational, as well as couples and singles.
Evil and violence do not recognize "safe" spaces.
The best book I ever read about person & business security was.
Sheep No More, author was SEAL, AIR MARSHAL, and FBI AGENT.
Buy, Read, Reread, and info might be valuable. Might save your life.
Sheep No More, author was SEAL, AIR MARSHAL, and FBI AGENT.
Buy, Read, Reread, and info might be valuable. Might save your life.
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@Mr. Shavington Your viewpoint is understandable given the situation you describe where you live. Apparently, a lot of our news doesn't make it across the pond.
Unfortunately, in the USA, any large gatherings of people have become a favorite target of bad people with the intent of killing and injuring as many people as they can. This includes, schools, churches, concerts, block parties, rallies, etc. The weapons of choice for bad guys wanting to inflict harm is often, but not limited to guns. Sometimes it's also knives, explosives, poisons, etc.
Sad state of affairs, but it's the world we live in right now.
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Bad people like Soft Targets, if you make your Target Hard, bad people find another target.
In Arizona we have many who live life but Carry Daily. Arizona is Firearm friendly.
If I go anywhere I am aware of what is going on around me.
Its called situational awareness.
If I go anywhere I am aware of what is going on around me.
Its called situational awareness.
- Thread starter
- #19
Ours is a large church, I guess you'd call it a mega church, seats up to 2500. Large complex and high profile. There are always Deputy Sheriffs visible and the automobile traffic is such that it requires deputies to direct traffic for most services. While I appreciate the presence of the Deputies, I would prefer to have an active part in the safety of our church.
**Sigh** I guess I have to say, if one is easily shocked or traumatized, one should not watch the vid link.
Not at all common, but it does happen. Robberies used to be a bit more common in houses of worship (worldwide). Things like Lakewood (below) grab the headlines, but EDPs (Emotionally Disturbed Persons) loose their dookey in churches, buses, homeless shelters, on the street, quickie-marts, etc.,etc.. You won't hear about the larger number of them, as your local media have a vested interest in maintaining the image of Official Control. I'm speaking as a former EMT.
Lakewood, Houston, Texas
The officers at Lakewood were active duty, full-time, uniformed officers. Calling this a catastrophic failure is a profound understatement.
