Interesting Video Sheds New Light On Puerh

[tea goober]

http://v.cctv.com/html/documentary/2008/08/documentary_300_20080831_2.shtml

I found this video and thought it to be enlightening. The clip is thirty minutes long but around the seventeen minute mark is where the main issue is (for me anyways) It pertains to the "traditional stage" of pre-fermentation of the maocha before being pressed. So, if this info is correct then those red tinged leaves are what we should be looking for in a properly made tea. The "picking standard" is what affects the teas ability to age properly. Who started all this mass hysteria about the pre-oxodized leaf anyways?

 

[netsurfr]

Thanks for the link! Have to check that out.

 

[Maitre_Tea]

As I mentioned on your blog, I think a little bit of oxidation can't hurt, but this can be kind of subjective depending on who's looking at the leaf. As to who starting this whole craze, I believe it originates from drinkers located in East Asia. Granted, they probably have more experience than all of us put together, but what works for 80s cakes doesn't work for 90s cakes, and it sure as heck doesn't apply right now. I've also read that oxidation makes for a smoother, better tasting drink, and that "back in the day" stuff like Hongyin, Bazhong Huanyin, etc. all tasted horrible and extremely bitter. So because of this some feel that excessive oxidation is bad.

I think it probably doesn't hurt to be flexible in collecting, having some cakes that have reddened leaves, some that don't really have that, etc. so if something doesn't work out you're not completely screwed.

 

[tea goober]

As I mentioned on your blog, I think a little bit of oxidation can't hurt, but this can be kind of subjective depending on who's looking at the leaf. As to who starting this whole craze, I believe it originates from drinkers located in East Asia. Granted, they probably have more experience than all of us put together, but what works for 80s cakes doesn't work for 90s cakes, and it sure as heck doesn't apply right now. I've also read that oxidation makes for a smoother, better tasting drink, and that "back in the day" stuff like Hongyin, Bazhong Huanyin, etc. all tasted horrible and extremely bitter. So because of this some feel that excessive oxidation is bad.

I think it probably doesn't hurt to be flexible in collecting, having some cakes that have reddened leaves, some that don't really have that, etc. so if something doesn't work out you're not completely screwed.

Yeah I kinda just go with gut instinct and not try to over intellectualize it. If I like it, I buy it regardless of oxidized leaf or not. I read over and over again about how todays teas are just not up to yesterdays standards and I wonder if this is true. Everbody is entitled to their own opinions but I happen to like todays teas just fine. I buy the ones that I most enjoy drinking now and if it turns out they age into something really good then great, if not, oh well. It,s not like I have cakes stacked up to the rafters at my house and have sunk $$$$$$$$$ into them. My collection is modest, maybe a couple dozen cakes. I from time to time add to it but I,m not hording crazy amounts of tea in hopes that someday they will make the world a better place, it,s just tea.

 

[Maitre_Tea]

Honestly, I think of those things where you have the "old timers" who talk about "the good old days" and stuff, and how everything back then was great and things suck now. Who knows, we might turn into these kind of old timers too in the future

 

[Jasonian]

The link doesn't seem to work. My browser (any of them) keeps downloading the .shtml file instead of opening the video.

Any way to get a link to just the video?

 

[P_K]

I just clicked on it and it worked fine for me.

 

[tieguanyin]

Honestly, I think of those things where you have the "old timers" who talk about "the good old days" and stuff, and how everything back then was great and things suck now. Who knows, we might turn into these kind of old timers too in the future

Given the lack of information (and transparency for that matter) on how Menghai, Xiaguan, et all produce their puerh offerings, it would be very difficult to assess old ones versus new ones on the same basis. Obviously, production methods have changed as have the leaves used (both for good and for bad). Unless we can interrogate (yes I mean that !) current and former puerh factory managers/workers, coming to a definite conclusion on this issue will be elusive.

As Ouch has pointed out with wine, you can have a case you are aging and have bottles within the same case taste differently even though they have been stored in identical conditions...

From my own perspective, I think there is enough room for both drinkers of young sheng (cue the music for Scotto ) and old sheng (cue the music for those who wish to identify themselves ) to co-exist.

I find extremely intolerant comments along the line "You have not tasted real puerh unless it is old (and by-the-by well-stored)". Puerh is a journey where everyone will find something to like and dislike.

 

[tea goober]

The link doesn't seem to work. My browser (any of them) keeps downloading the .shtml file instead of opening the video.

Any way to get a link to just the video?

Try watching it from my blog maybe. "Tea Goober"

 

[Maitre_Tea]

I think concerns about oxidation in leaf may be one of those things where the original message gets distorted in some way. It's like game my teacher had us play, where one of us whispers a message, and passes it on to the next, and so forth. By the end of the whole thing the original message had been lost.

It might be the same with this, because we're hearing this from people who know people who've collecting for X years who hears it from people in China who hear it from their vendor, and so on. I'm sure that there is some reason why excessive oxidation is bad, but the message has probably been garbled up getting to us here in the US.

 

[silvertip beard]

Just as there is vast breadth of variety in the degree and methods of oxidation in the preparation of oolong-style teas, it would seem probable that there would be a great variety in the degree and methods of oxidation in the preparation of puerh-style teas.

Farming traditions of centuries ago (some of which are still being used today) like leaving tea in the sun to wither and oxidize naturally may be different from the industrial techniques used today to create mellowed, orange, "tweaked" tea. I suspect that in some cases this is done to cover up/minimize the effects of using substandard maocha.

This tweaking of tea can yield pleasant results like many of the xiaguan offerings, as well as not-so-pleasant results like the 2008 Star of Bulang.
Not all tweaked tea is bad tea, but some are better than others.
As well, "there is no accounting for taste".

I'm a beginner, so this is all IMHO of course. YMMV, 0.02, etc.

Cheers!

 

[nada]

Another interesting post!

This is one I've thought a lot about also.

Reddened (oxidised) leaves seem to come from a variety of sources.

1/ The mythical 'tweaking' by crafty producers - I think this is the case less than one might be lead to think by reading the internet.

2/ Bugs biting the leaves - in the case of lower lying plantations later in the season (in a similar manner to Bai Hao oolong).

3/ Lazy pickers - they pick too many leaves in their baskets before emptying them out, leading to bruising of the leaves in the bottom of the basket.

4/ Careless transport - throwing sacks of fresh leaves onto the back of trucks, off the back of trucks etc.

5/ Leaving them too long before shaqing (kill green) - easy to do if the days pickings are large.

6/ Incomplete shaqing - also easy to do if not skilled. If performing shaqing by hand, difficult to make sure all of the leaves are heated sufficiently to stop oxidisation but not heated too much so as to singe the edge of the leaves. Also difficult when dealing with leaves of different thicknesses (rolled buds, small leaves, big leaves)
If performing by machine - it's also easy to miss some leaves due to the scale and imprecision of the machine.

I think that's pretty much it. The leaves can get bruised or oxidise at several steps. I think most of the (non big factory) cakes we see with some oxidised leaves are more a signal of carelessness during production than some nefarious activities designed to trick us into drinking sweet puerh.

Of course the big factories have got this type of thing down to an art, so don't be surprised to discover blending.

 

[tea goober]

Another interesting post!

This is one I've thought a lot about also.

Reddened (oxidised) leaves seem to come from a variety of sources.

1/ The mythical 'tweaking' by crafty producers - I think this is the case less than one might be lead to think by reading the internet.

2/ Bugs biting the leaves - in the case of lower lying plantations later in the season (in a similar manner to Bai Hao oolong).

3/ Lazy pickers - they pick too many leaves in their baskets before emptying them out, leading to bruising of the leaves in the bottom of the basket.

4/ Careless transport - throwing sacks of fresh leaves onto the back of trucks, off the back of trucks etc.

5/ Leaving them too long before shaqing (kill green) - easy to do if the days pickings are large.

6/ Incomplete shaqing - also easy to do if not skilled. If performing shaqing by hand, difficult to make sure all of the leaves are heated sufficiently to stop oxidisation but not heated too much so as to singe the edge of the leaves. Also difficult when dealing with leaves of different thicknesses (rolled buds, small leaves, big leaves)
If performing by machine - it's also easy to miss some leaves due to the scale and imprecision of the machine.

I think that's pretty much it. The leaves can get bruised or oxidise at several steps. I think most of the (non big factory) cakes we see with some oxidised leaves are more a signal of carelessness during production than some nefarious activities designed to trick us into drinking sweet puerh.

Of course the big factories have got this type of thing down to an art, so don't be surprised to discover blending.

The whole point of posting this video was to offer the idea that the oxidation of the leaf is an intentional traditional step in the processing of the tea. According to the video deliberately oxidizing the leaf is a way of insuring that the teas can age properly. I,m aware of all the possible scenarios as to how this can happen and had often wondered how true this was. Personally, the slight oxidation is not a bad thing as far as my tastes go. Ive read over and over again that teas that show red edges on the leaf are some kind of (insert all of the scenarios you mentioned) and may not age properly. This video claims that without the red leaf the teas may not age properly. Exactly the opposite of whats been repeated so often lately.

 

[nada]

Sorry, I may have missed the point - I was replying to some of the issues addressed in the answers to your post. I tried several browsers, but couldn't get the video to play (using a mac).

Apologies for this.

 

[nada]

I managed to get a page to display with come text below the video - is this a transcript of the video?

 

[tea goober]

I dont have any advice as far as how to get it to play on a mac. It,s basically a 30 min. documentary on the history of puerh. In the section titled "fermentation" it states that before the maocha could be transported to Kunming the tea had to be misted with water so as to soften the leaf. If the leaf was dry then it would become damaged on the journey. Because of being sprayed with water it could survive the trip in good condidtion and it would have completed the "110 day fermentation period" that is nesessary to insure that the tea will age properly. The video kinda stresses this as being important. Also the "picking standard" as crucial in the ageability of the tea. The clip specifically states that upon completion of the fermentation period the leaf would turn a light red in color. Maybe somebody else with B&B could advise you on how to get to the video but I dont have a clue.

 

[nada]

Thanks for the pointer - I think the text I found was maybe a transcript of the video.

I'm not sure they're talking exclusively about oxidation. It's difficult since the chinese word for Oxidation and Fermentation are essentially the same (FaXiao). Some people insert 'Pre-' (ChenFaXiao) to refer exclusively to oxidation. Though a lot of english speaking chinese get mixed up with these two terms.

I'm not so sure that it's the fresh leaves that they're loading onto the horses - I'm pretty sure they'd be completely red, not just slightly red after 12 days. My interpretation of the text from the transcript is that it is the processed maocha that is sprayed with water before being loaded onto horseback. The 12 days of fermentation were kind of like a short period of wodui, turning the leaves slightly red (as Shou puerh is red).

I may be wrong, but I've never heard of anyone leaving freshly picked leaves for 12 days before. There's a section later about Yiwu that makes it more explicit about the leaves going through shaqing before storing.

What do you think?

 

[tea goober]

I really dont know what to think about this info. It seems to contradict everything we have all been hearing about the way that tea is made. I would think that 110 days of fermentation would make the leaves a little more than slightly red, wodui? If so than the claim that shu was invented in the 70,s is not so. It,s funny that this one little video has contradicted most of the ideas that I had about puerh and now leaves me knowing less than before. But, whatever. In a way, the less I know about it the more I enjoy it. All this minutia is just a distraction from whats really important, the tea. BTW, Ive still got my eyes on one of those LBZ cakes you have for sale, so tempting, but also so expensive. I guess if I,m going to get one I,d better do it quick before they are gone.

 

[ouch]

Great vid!

 

[ambrose]

I cant get the link to work, through the blog either.