Inheritances, wills, and family.

[thunderball]

Well, my grandfather finally passed away at the ripe old age of 96 and I just received a copy of the will from my aunt, the executor. It seems that, because my dad passed away ten years ago, his share of the estate then goes on to my brother and I. Because there are three siblings aside from my dad, this would amount to 1/8 for myself.

My uncles haven't spoken to each other in years, my aunt is totally exhausted from the years of care she gave my grandpa, and I live way over here in Japan. My brother also kind of shunned that side of the family for many years but is now quite excited at the prospect of receiving inheritance. He figures we should get a lawyer, my aunt just wants everyone to get along, and I almost can't be bothered. There are several pieces of property, all worth different amounts, and she is hoping that we will just each take one and be done with it...if everybody agrees. All the properties have sentimental value for us but in some way I wish they'd just sell them all and just divvy up the funds. Of course my aunt would rather not see that happen. Looks like I'll be having to call up my uncle...not something I want to do as we haven't gotten along in over 10 years.

Anyway, I could bore you with family history, but what I'm wondering is if anybody has any experience with wills and such? My brother says a lawyer is standard (something about full disclosure?) but I figure that the last thing my aunt needs right now is a lawyer coming at her. Have any of you just said 'screw it' or settled for less than you should have gotten? Are these battles worth it? I want to just say 'you guys go ahead' but the estate is over million dollars and I guess I would regret it if I didn't participate in this whole thing. It will definitely mean an unexpected trip back to Canada. Poor ol' grandpa....

 

[mdunn]

This same kinda thing happened to a friend of mine recently. They just got a couple of different valuations for each place, then avgd them. Then added all the averages together and split it by the number of children. Then they used whatever $$ was allocated by that valuation split to 'buy' any properties they wanted, or alternatively, to walk with the cash from the sale of properties.

 

[dpm802]

Although your aunt is executrix of the will, this doesn't mean she has to do all the work herself. Especially if she has spent the last several years taking care of your grandfather.

Having a lawyer is a good idea. Although he will charge for his services, it will be worth it to engage someone outside the family to take care of the paperwork and handle the details. This attorney would be a neutral, unbiased party, unswayed by emotions or family squabbles, tasked solely with seeing that your grandfather's last wishes are carried out as he wanted them.

You might also consult an accountant or certified financial planner to crunch the numbers for you and see how this inheritance will play out in taxes.

 

[Saltysteele]

i would say the best way is to have the land appraised, and if anyone would like to purchase a parcel, they could do so. this may not necessarily mean they would actually give cash, they just would not receive the value of the property they wished to keep, in cash.

let's say the property i wanted was appraised at 50K. let's say i was the only one to want property. the remaining properties are sold, and 50K was added to the amount received. let's say i was to receive 60K. well, i would actually only receive 10K, and retain my property. now, if I were to only receive 40K, then I would have to come up with 10K to be split between the others.

times such as this are hard on families. the best way to go about it is as coldly and straightly as possible. in the end, no one can say things are unfair, as if they wanted property, they could have purchased it.

just my opinion based on past experience.

 

[thunderball]

Very helpful replies so far fellahs, thanks.

One thing that is a bit confusing is the idea of assessed values vs. actual market values. It seems that in Canada the assessed value is much lower than what a property would actually sell for. My aunt is saying that we should go by assessed value for tax purposes but the problem is that the two beach properties that my uncles are going to want are assessed at the same value as these other two properties out in the forest...and it will be these forest plots they'll be hoping my brother and I take. The beach properties would actually sell for way more than the two forest lots so it blows my mind that they can actually be assessed at the same value.

Hence the need for a real appraisal I guess eh?

 

[Topgumby]

Dave-

Be mindful that the spouses involved may have their own ideas...the most difficult part of the process for me was dealing with the spouses of those splitting the estate. We eventually forbade them from being around as we did the grunt work and such.

We had everything evaluated, and then came up with a total. There were five brothers involved, and we had an auction of sorts with the physical goods...if you wanted something, it came out of your share, and if two or more wanted it, we bid...an interesting experience, as the silliest, trivial stuff started bidding wars. Amazingly, we all came away from this feeling that we had been treated fairly, and we had a good time, if you could call it that. We hadn't spent that much time together since we were kids, and it was a good thing even under the circumstances. I think the next time something like that happens, sadly we'll be one brother short.

Good luck, and either decide from the get-go that you and yours either don't care a whit or insist on having a lawyer make sure everything is on the up and up. It only takes one pushy relative or spouse to make the whole thing a bone of contention for the rest of your days.

 

[airplanedoc]

I am so glad I am a only child as are both my parents.

Best of luck, unfortunately the best and the worst both usually come out during these things.

My neighbors across the street both died about a year apart. Their 2 daughters now refuse to speak to one another. The neighbors owned a piece of property next to my house, that I was interested in purchasing from the estate. I eventualy bought the property, but I had to serve as the middle man since the sisters won't talk to one another. My neighbors would be terribly upset if they knew how the 2 girls were acting.

 

[WhosYerBob]

Get a lawyer involved ASAP. I know of nothing that can tear a family apart as much as the death of a loved one and the distribution of the estate afterward.

My wife and I have a lot of personal experience of that sort from both sides of our family and I have been astounded by the greed and avarice exhibited by siblings, spouses, children, other relatives and interested parties outside of the immediate family. And the bigger the estate, the worse it gets.

My sister and I severed all relations with my father many years ago because of all the horrible things he did as executor of his dad's estate to keep everything for himself - when it was all to be distributed equally among the three of us. That experience has made me dread any future estate distributions that are sure to happen.

 

[Unknownsoldier]

I'm with Airplanedoc here, I'm glad everything for me is already settled asnd sorted.

I'd go for the lawyer, you may lose some money to their fees, but it'll simplify everything a lot I would think. Everyone taking bits and bobs is ok if you like each other but with falling outs etc. it's a quagmire.... With my family, even though we get on reasonably well..... my grandmothers death caused a few problems, even though she left very little....

Tom

 

[AFG]

The one thing you can know with certainty is that if the family did not get along well before they are not going to come together now to settle this peacefully. In the best of times, when money is involved, it can tear a family apart. You have to decide if your potential inheritance is worth the turmoil. If there's enough involved to warrant the price of a good attorney who knows how to handle an estate, then hire him/her, sit back and let the attorney do all the dirty work. You can make an attempt at a peaceful resolution and I hope that's what happens but be prepared for it to go the other way. Sometimes its just best to walk away or hire someone to do the work rather than take on a battle that this could be.

 

[natchez]

If there is a decent size estate just hire a good attorney and let them handle it. It is worth the money not to have to deal with all the family stuff. I am very sorry for your loss.

 

[Antique Hoosier]

Your answer is to hire a top flight attorney whose sole practice is Trusts, Wills, Estates & Probate and then as you do here in our B&B community, conduct yourself as a Gentleman.

 

[blantyre]

The executor's job is to implement the precise terms of a will and they can delegate all or part of the work if they wish. If the estate is large and complicated, some professional help will be useful. If it is small and simple, it may eat away a substantial portion of the assets to do simple things. It is very specific to the situation IMO.

Needless to say family feuds and fights over specific items make everything more complicated and an impartial adviser can help to smooth over some of these issues. As a beneficiary in the will, it seems to me that you only need a lawyer if you convinced that you have been cheated or deceived to cut you cut out of something willed to you.

 

[The Nid Hog]

I agree that a lawyer is a good idea. Get a lawyer, review the situation, decide what possibility suits you and work it out with him/her. Then let the lawyers all talk to each other. That way you can all be human to one another.

 

[Zenas]

The best thing you can do is have an attorney look the will over. This probably won't even cost you very much. Depending on his opinion, you might need him further, or he might recommend a course of action and that be the end of your relationship. I would still have someone look the will over and inform you of your inheritance.

Your aunt sounds like she is worn out. She's probably not looking out for you or herself, as she's exhausted and just wants this to be over with. It sounds like other members of the family might try to take advantage. You need to look out for you.

FYI: Your aunt doesn't have to be the executor, she can pass it on. As I remember from Decedent Estates, there should be a back up executor in the will and, if not, the probate court should appoint one.

 

[dpm802]

The best thing you can do is have an attorney look the will over. This probably won't even cost you very much. Depending on his opinion, you might need him further, or he might recommend a course of action and that be the end of your relationship. I would still have someone look the will over and inform you of your inheritance.

You can pretty much count on the attorney advising that you will need him further ... whether true or not, his advise will be based on HIS best interests, not yours.

Another thing to watch out for is when the attorney refers you to specific real-estate agents, stock-brokers, tax accountants, etc. You are free to seek out these professionals on your own.

This is what happened with my mother's estate. My brother was the executor, and he took the attorney's advise on referrals, without seeking out any other options. No doubt, the attorney has some sort of kick-back arrangement with these other firms where he is paid a "finder's fee" on the back-end. It cost us thousands of dollars extra in fees, commissions and other costs.

 

[Zenas]

Not true at all unless you assume you have an unethical attorney. Attorneys, under the Rules of Professional responsibility, must act in their client's best interests, which includes giving them advice that might not be as financially beneficial to the attorney, but moreso for the client.

Kindly, your assumption is misguided.

If you can prove the kick back referral scenario you provide, report the attorney to the board of professional responsibility in your state. That's a direct violation of the rules and he should be reprimanded. That cannot, repeat, cannot go on.

 

[airplanedoc]

You can pretty much count on the attorney advising that you will need him further ... whether true or not, his advise will be based on HIS best interests, not yours.

Another thing to watch out for is when the attorney refers you to specific real-estate agents, stock-brokers, tax accountants, etc. You are free to seek out these professionals on your own.

+1000

Remember most politicians start out as lawyers, that is why thay call it practice.

 

[Bertilak]

Very helpful replies so far fellahs, thanks.

One thing that is a bit confusing is the idea of assessed values vs. actual market values. It seems that in Canada the assessed value is much lower than what a property would actually sell for. My aunt is saying that we should go by assessed value for tax purposes but the problem is that the two beach properties that my uncles are going to want are assessed at the same value as these other two properties out in the forest...and it will be these forest plots they'll be hoping my brother and I take. The beach properties would actually sell for way more than the two forest lots so it blows my mind that they can actually be assessed at the same value.

Hence the need for a real appraisal I guess eh?

Do NOT go by value assessed for tax purposes. As you say, it may not represent actual market value. Get an appraiser of your own. If the same appraiser does all three properties there should be no bias of the evaluation of one over the other. Then you can use the method described by Saltysteele to get total value for "divying up" (assuming all the properties are actually wanted by the people involved).

If a property is wanted by more than one person that could be tough. I don't know if the executor has some power to make decisions here. Ask that lawyer she will hire!

If a property is not wanted, put it up for sale and divide up the proceeds if and when it sells.

 

[Will P.C.]

A lawyer is a must, but make sure he deal deals with wills

Depending on the value, you would want to seek an accountant or financial planner to give you the big picture as far as taxes go. It might be cheaper in the long run to just sell the property depending on you plans for that property.