I Need Help.
- Thread starter colingohl
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My biggest problem in that area has always been angle, at first I didn't even notice that I was off. My suggestion is focus on that blade angle and avoid using anymore pressure. Good luck and happy shaving Sir!
How does it cut on the rest of your face? Tugging? Pulling? Scraping feeling? If so, it isn't sharp. PM me and I will hone it up if you like. Or there's plenty of folks here that do it b
I am new too. The advice to concentrate on your blade angle and use very little pressure are good ones. I have been going at my chin very gently from 4 directions and little by little getting it done. I have watched the videos where the shaver just does one long down stroke following the contour of the chin to his neck but that kind of move is a ways off for me.
I suggest short strokes, watch the blade angle like a hawk and use very little pressure. Hope this helps. I think as we get used to the tools we will be able to put them to better use.
I suggest short strokes, watch the blade angle like a hawk and use very little pressure. Hope this helps. I think as we get used to the tools we will be able to put them to better use.
all good advice above. I also am new, and the chin was one of my biggest problems (not cuts, but very little hair reduction). What I found is that as my technique improved I slowly managed to remove more hair. Unfortunately, I can't really tell you what I did differently (everything, probably), but rest assured that it will get better. How many times have you shaved with a straight?
One piece of advice on the chin and jaw area generally is to stretch the skin upward so that you are shaving the hair that usually lives at the "edge" of your jaw/chin higher up where you have a flatter angle to shave with. Then on the "bottom" stretch the skin downward. I've also found that, although the hair on my chin grows pretty much N-S, I have somewhat better luck at beard reduction on my chin XTG than I do WTG.
One piece of advice on the chin and jaw area generally is to stretch the skin upward so that you are shaving the hair that usually lives at the "edge" of your jaw/chin higher up where you have a flatter angle to shave with. Then on the "bottom" stretch the skin downward. I've also found that, although the hair on my chin grows pretty much N-S, I have somewhat better luck at beard reduction on my chin XTG than I do WTG.
- Thread starter
- #6
From reading the shave journals and other posts around here, I've gathered that it is fairly common for us newbs to feel the razor is not sharp enough until we've done a better job of mastering the angle. I certainly felt my blade was not sharp enough when I started, plus I think I dulled the blade with poor stropping technique as well. Scraping could be about angle, too.
I'm only on shave 20. It took me about 10 shaves before I was getting shaves that didn't feel like a toddler did them, and about 14 shaves before I was getting consistently decent shaves. I still have a long way to go (I've seen people say between 60 and 100 shaves before you've really got it down solid), but the improvement that I've seen in the first 20 shaves has been extraordinary.
How often are you stropping and what with?
If you're getting a decent shave everywhere but your chin, I'd say stick with it and clean up the chin with a DE for a week if you need to. I'm willing to bet after another week of shaves you'll be seeing improvement on the chin.
If you're feeling like the razor isn't sharp enough generally, ask one of the many generous honemeisters on B&B to take a look for you--it may need a touch-up.
Sound advice from temjeito. Three's no shame in using a DE for touch-ups until you get the hang of a straight razor. Sounds like you're doing great so far though keep plugging away it will all become more natural. I'm at shave #22 and it's starting to feel more natural rather than like as temjeito said above a toddler was doing them.
The chin has been the hardest area for me for several reasons: I've got a mole under my lip, my point of my chin is 'fleshy' so the skin can move around, and my chin is prominent so the angle is constantly changing. Here's two things I've figure out so far - subject to change as I improve:
I was trying to maneuver around with the toe of the razor. When the edge got to where my chin sticks out the toe would dig in and nick me. I'm now using the middle and heel of the blade and don't have that problem.
My default when I get to places where I'm worrying about cutting myself is to reduce the angle and move the spine closer to my face. When I do that with downward strokes towards my chin that means that I'm slicing into my chin - got my only real cut with a straight that way. (The good news is that the cut was so clean from the sharp edge it healed very quick.) So now when I move the blade into the 'valley' right before my chin starts to rise I increase the blade angle a bit and I'm very careful to use a light touch. The trick here is to find an angle that cuts rather than scrapes but at least I'm not just slicing down like I'm trying to cut off my chin which was my original problem.
I do most of my skin stretching by facial contortions rather than pulling with my off hand. (I probably need to work on skin stretching but that's for a different post.) But really aggressively stretching the skin helps to keep the fleshy part of my chin from moving under the blade and getting cut.
FWIW, my shaves around my chin have gotten much better recently (I"m probably around shave 30).
I was trying to maneuver around with the toe of the razor. When the edge got to where my chin sticks out the toe would dig in and nick me. I'm now using the middle and heel of the blade and don't have that problem.
My default when I get to places where I'm worrying about cutting myself is to reduce the angle and move the spine closer to my face. When I do that with downward strokes towards my chin that means that I'm slicing into my chin - got my only real cut with a straight that way. (The good news is that the cut was so clean from the sharp edge it healed very quick.) So now when I move the blade into the 'valley' right before my chin starts to rise I increase the blade angle a bit and I'm very careful to use a light touch. The trick here is to find an angle that cuts rather than scrapes but at least I'm not just slicing down like I'm trying to cut off my chin which was my original problem.
I do most of my skin stretching by facial contortions rather than pulling with my off hand. (I probably need to work on skin stretching but that's for a different post.) But really aggressively stretching the skin helps to keep the fleshy part of my chin from moving under the blade and getting cut.
FWIW, my shaves around my chin have gotten much better recently (I"m probably around shave 30).
- Thread starter
- #10
Sounds like all of you are getting better shaves all because of your body and learning how the curves on your face are. I have noted that I will for sure be trying a different angle, maybe less of an angle - I'd say I'mm using about a 35 degree angle right now. I'm stropping everyday with a piece of denim glued to a piece of wood - I couldn't really afford a strop but I just bought two like a day ago from whippeddog.com. I'll update you guys tomorrow on how it's going with a reduced angle.
Chins take time, lots of curve to manage.
Try breaking in two portions-the upper and lower- then stretch the lower into the upper portion and shave then reverse
Try breaking in two portions-the upper and lower- then stretch the lower into the upper portion and shave then reverse
- Thread starter
- #12
Reduced angle didn't do much for me, in fact it didn't really take off any whiskers at all. I'm thinking that I need a honing or something. I preformed the hanging hair test again today (this time correctly) and it did NOT pass. I had to swipe at the hair to cut it. I previously preformed the hanging hair test by pulling the hair tight and seeing if it would cut - in which it did - but further research showed that I did the test wrong. Does anyone have any input on this situation? There appears to be no blunting - but it's just not sharp it seems.
I suggest taking RickBoone1 up on his offer to hone your razor.
Of the 12 straights I own, all were advertised as "shave ready" but, only 2 really were... the last two... the ones I purchased from Seraphim and from Doc226.
After shaving with 10 substandard edges, shaving with an edge honed by real craftsman was an epiphany!
My chin and parts of my neck require some creative angling and can only be worked with the heal and toe of the razor.
I have to be creative with my grip and I have to use just the first 1/4" of the toe and the heal in tight spots.
When I first started straight shaving, I dulled my edges almost right away so, I think your are correct, your razor most likely needs a tune up.
Keep at it!!!
Of the 12 straights I own, all were advertised as "shave ready" but, only 2 really were... the last two... the ones I purchased from Seraphim and from Doc226.
After shaving with 10 substandard edges, shaving with an edge honed by real craftsman was an epiphany!
My chin and parts of my neck require some creative angling and can only be worked with the heal and toe of the razor.
I have to be creative with my grip and I have to use just the first 1/4" of the toe and the heal in tight spots.
When I first started straight shaving, I dulled my edges almost right away so, I think your are correct, your razor most likely needs a tune up.
Keep at it!!!
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Yes - get that razor honed and touched up. Working with a dull razor causes all kinds of grief.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
First, here is my chin routine. After shaving lower neck I shave under the chin, N-S. then everything else from jawline down. After burns and cheeks and mustache I carefully line out the lower lip and then shave the front of the chin N-S. There is about a 3/4" wide strip that didn't get done in either step and I find that E-W is the only way to get it in a single pass without cuts. Sometimes concentrating too much on WTG and XTG and ATG stuff will trip you up. Do what works for you.
Careful stretching is a must do. A good starting angle is with the spine standing off from the face with a gap of about one spine thickness or a tiny bit less. 35 degrees is excessive, generally. Don't start the under chin strokes too high or the curvature will mess you up on the shave angle and it is red lather time again.
I strongly suggest getting a nice piece of balsa 3" x 12" and lapping it nice and flat on a sheet of sandpaper stuck on a glass coffee table top with LocTite or 3M spray adhesive. 320 grit is good. Finish with 600 if you like. Flatness is important. Then apply .5u diamond paste to one side and .1u to the other. Www.tedpella.com is where I get my paste. A couple of BBs worth rubbed in well is what you want. If it feels like you have enough then you have TOO MUCH and your results will suffer. For normal after shave maintenance to keep your razor sharp go about 50 laps stropping on the fine side of the balsa with light light pressure and a slight x stroke motion keeping the shoulder off the balsa and keeping the spine on it. If the edge seems to be getting dull anyhow then that wasn't enough laps for you and that razor. use the coarse side to bring it back and finish with the fine side as usual. Diamond pastes balsa is a tremendously powerful edge maintenance tool and if properly used will eliminate the need for rehoning. If you have Larry's green n red pasted balsa it will work but diamond on a bigger balsa will work better.
Denim will work as a strop but newspaper made into a hanging strop is better and still expendable. Just fold a whole sheet lengthwise to 3" wide and pass over a towel bar and pinch the ends together. Pull tight and strop. Almost as good as leather. When you can swing it get a Big Daddy from www.starshaving.com which is my favorite strop in spite of being pretty darn cheap. Larry's Poor Man strop is also good for learning cause it is cheap enough to toss with no regrets if you slice it to shreds and you can upgrade to the Big Daddy later.
Read Blix's Lapping Film thread when you are ready to try honing. Then get a polished marble edge tile from home depot and some 1u film and learn to do maintenance honing on razors that were previously sharp. Film, well used, will improve at least half of the "shave ready" edges you get.
If you get offers to hone your razor for free, jump on one. Most of the free honers have a gunfighter attitude and are out to make a name for themselves and are proud of their edges. Generally you will be getting a better edge than from someone who hones razors for money. GENERALLY I say. The guy who hones for the sheer joy of it is gonna take more time and care and will probably e en test shave with the razor. YMMV of course.
Your razor might or might not be dull though I suspect it is. All honers have off days and also it is very easy to dull an edge with even your first shave or stropping. Maybe it is sharp but you are not experienced enough yet to know the difference. Either way a touch up from a member whether pro or amateur will help to solidify it a bit so you are not wondering.
Careful stretching is a must do. A good starting angle is with the spine standing off from the face with a gap of about one spine thickness or a tiny bit less. 35 degrees is excessive, generally. Don't start the under chin strokes too high or the curvature will mess you up on the shave angle and it is red lather time again.
I strongly suggest getting a nice piece of balsa 3" x 12" and lapping it nice and flat on a sheet of sandpaper stuck on a glass coffee table top with LocTite or 3M spray adhesive. 320 grit is good. Finish with 600 if you like. Flatness is important. Then apply .5u diamond paste to one side and .1u to the other. Www.tedpella.com is where I get my paste. A couple of BBs worth rubbed in well is what you want. If it feels like you have enough then you have TOO MUCH and your results will suffer. For normal after shave maintenance to keep your razor sharp go about 50 laps stropping on the fine side of the balsa with light light pressure and a slight x stroke motion keeping the shoulder off the balsa and keeping the spine on it. If the edge seems to be getting dull anyhow then that wasn't enough laps for you and that razor. use the coarse side to bring it back and finish with the fine side as usual. Diamond pastes balsa is a tremendously powerful edge maintenance tool and if properly used will eliminate the need for rehoning. If you have Larry's green n red pasted balsa it will work but diamond on a bigger balsa will work better.
Denim will work as a strop but newspaper made into a hanging strop is better and still expendable. Just fold a whole sheet lengthwise to 3" wide and pass over a towel bar and pinch the ends together. Pull tight and strop. Almost as good as leather. When you can swing it get a Big Daddy from www.starshaving.com which is my favorite strop in spite of being pretty darn cheap. Larry's Poor Man strop is also good for learning cause it is cheap enough to toss with no regrets if you slice it to shreds and you can upgrade to the Big Daddy later.
Read Blix's Lapping Film thread when you are ready to try honing. Then get a polished marble edge tile from home depot and some 1u film and learn to do maintenance honing on razors that were previously sharp. Film, well used, will improve at least half of the "shave ready" edges you get.
If you get offers to hone your razor for free, jump on one. Most of the free honers have a gunfighter attitude and are out to make a name for themselves and are proud of their edges. Generally you will be getting a better edge than from someone who hones razors for money. GENERALLY I say. The guy who hones for the sheer joy of it is gonna take more time and care and will probably e en test shave with the razor. YMMV of course.
Your razor might or might not be dull though I suspect it is. All honers have off days and also it is very easy to dull an edge with even your first shave or stropping. Maybe it is sharp but you are not experienced enough yet to know the difference. Either way a touch up from a member whether pro or amateur will help to solidify it a bit so you are not wondering.
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I would take a look at the way your hair grows, really study it.
The underside of my chin grows east-west, but on the face side grows north-south; on corners of the mouth the hair grows at opposing diagonals, north-west - south-east, and north-east - south-west, respectively.
This understanding of dynamics is key to not slice up your face.
The underside of my chin grows east-west, but on the face side grows north-south; on corners of the mouth the hair grows at opposing diagonals, north-west - south-east, and north-east - south-west, respectively.
This understanding of dynamics is key to not slice up your face.
I like a gillette slide or wiping manuever to atack my chin, especially when the blade isnt super laser sharp.
I have recently found that a sort of wiping arc from the middle of my chin out toward the side and down works pretty well. Not sure how to explain it better, but I start with the blade at the cleft of the chin, tip pointing toward my ear, then wipe the razor around and down toward the basic my neck...
- Thread starter
- #19
Thanks for the help! I actually bought 2 strops from Larry - I got his 2 strop deal (which is pretty nice). I'll definitley have someone hone my razor when I get money for shipping - college is a harsh maiden to the wallet lol.
Straight razor shaving has given me a new understanding of where the first goatees must have come from. I'm about 35 shaves in and just the last 2-3 have I gotten close to bbs without irritation or multiple weepers in the chin area--usually straight down from the corners of my mouth
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