I made the leap...

[Sukeroku]

After a year of honing on lapping film (which I highly recommend for SR newbies), I finally
bought some stones. Since I live in Japan, naturally I gravitated towards JNats (pun intended).
I went to Morihei in Asakusa and got a wakasa and a tomoganura plus a botan, a meijiro
and a koma. The local hardware store had some Cashew lacquer and, after applying about a
half dozen thin coats over a week to my wakasa, I got to work. A local barber gifted me
three Western style Japanese SR's. So, after taking off the surface rust and giving it a quick
polish, I put a Tassa through the paces. The bevel seemed OK based on a fingernail and
tomato test but I wanted to start from scratch. So, I killed the bevel and then reset it
with a Chosera 1K before going through the Jnat progression. I'll be honest. I could not
really feel the progression as described in some videos and the slurry was gray from the
start. I was not really sure if I was making any headway. However, by the end, I was getting
some tree topping. I still was not satisfied, so I did a .5, .25., .1 progression on diamond
pasted balsa strops. Now, the blade was keen and lopping off the tree tops with ease.

The proof is in the pudding. The next day I shaved with it.

I am not sure if it was the blade (a 6/8 round point), the hollow grind or the stones but
it was buttery smooth. I started with some hesitation on the WTG but after the XTG, I really
dove into the ATG. My best BBS ever...I will have to test the stones with one of my Tanifuji's
but based on this first shave, even with my total lack of touch and experience, it was a revelation.
I will always be a fan or lapping film and diamond pasted straps but now I get the Jnat fascination.

I'm a believer...

 

[cugel]

Keep at it. It took me months to have reproducible results on natural stone, especially jnats.

 

[Sukeroku]

Keep at it. It took me months to have reproducible results on natural stone, especially jnats.

Yeah maybe it was beginner's luck but it definitely inspired me to continue down the road.

 

[eKretz]

Good for you! Congrats on a successful dive. Are you Japanese or an expat? You should take a few photos of the stones on offer there, many of us love seeing those.

 

[Sukeroku]

I am an expat. Next time I stop by, I will take some pics. They have fifty to sixty stones on display
but I suspect that they keep the good stuff in the back. I basically asked for a decent starter pack.
The bill for the wakasa, tomonagura and the nagura came to less than $200.

 

[SliceOfLife]

You speak Japanese, I assume?

I'm sure I will get there sooner or later, but I have been told that even when shopkeeps speak English, they can be difficult to communicate with because they're embarrassed that their English isn't good so they say they don't... so while I'll definitely try to make it out to a shop, I may or may not buy anything.


On another tangent...GOOD jnat razor finishers (in my limited experience) are easy to use and give a great shave. As the stone quality goes down, it gets harder to use, less great of a finish, or both.

I've had some Jnats that gave a great edge, but were a real challenge getting there. I've also had some great, easy to use, fantastic feedback stones that just weren't finishers. I think the latter were the "better" stones. (One time recently I actually lapped the back of a really nice prefinisher I got as a woodworkers stone and the back was an identical stone but finer and actually a really good razor finisher... though I don't recommend anyone try this, I had tried to sell it for a year with no bites so I figured it was worth a shot, and it worked out)

Rubber hits the road: my best Jnat finishers are almost identical to Thuringians and PDSOs. Same camp. One day I'll like the shave off one or the other better... but how I identify a good razor finisher Jnat is that it fits in that camp. As in it couldn't be easier to use and after the shave I'm like "Oh yeah, I forgot how good that stone was".

Jnats have the width advantage for sure though (Not many Thuri's or PDSO's out there 2.5-3" wide if you like a wide stone).

Having said that though, I think the end goal as you get comfortable should be to shave without the diamond pastes. A good razor Jnat is more than capable of a great shave going right to clean linen/leather after. Personally, I would just take a film edge you shave with to the Jnat and see what the edge off the Jnat feels like without having to worry that you didn't do any of the leadup on the Jnat insufficiently. Then start trying the whole one-stone thing.


Also I don't try to HHT or anything off Balsa... but off stones most hair tests will read quite dull without stropping. Stropping is vital to bringing out the true sharpness of an edge finished on a stone.

 

[Sukeroku]

You speak Japanese, I assume?

I'm sure I will get there sooner or later, but I have been told that even when shopkeeps speak English, they can be difficult to communicate with because they're embarrassed that their English isn't good so they say they don't... so while I'll definitely try to make it out to a shop, I may or may not buy anything.


On another tangent...GOOD jnat razor finishers (in my limited experience) are easy to use and give a great shave. As the stone quality goes down, it gets harder to use, less great of a finish, or both.

I've had some Jnats that gave a great edge, but were a real challenge getting there. I've also had some great, easy to use, fantastic feedback stones that just weren't finishers. I think the latter were the "better" stones. (One time recently I actually lapped the back of a really nice prefinisher I got as a woodworkers stone and the back was an identical stone but finer and actually a really good razor finisher... though I don't recommend anyone try this, I had tried to sell it for a year with no bites so I figured it was worth a shot, and it worked out)

Rubber hits the road: my best Jnat finishers are almost identical to Thuringians and PDSOs. Same camp. One day I'll like the shave off one or the other better... but how I identify a good razor finisher Jnat is that it fits in that camp. As in it couldn't be easier to use and after the shave I'm like "Oh yeah, I forgot how good that stone was".

Jnats have the width advantage for sure though (Not many Thuri's or PDSO's out there 2.5-3" wide if you like a wide stone).

Having said that though, I think the end goal should be to shave without the diamond pastes. A good razor Jnat is more than capable of a great shave going right to clean linen/leather after.

Yes. I speak Japanese...not all expats do and many at varying degrees of fluency. That said, I am a good deal more than
merely functional in my adopted language. My experience is that shopkeepers will try their best to help you, especially if they
think you might buy something. The younger shop assistant at Morihei seemed like he might able to help a non-Japanese speaker.

At this point JNats are still a little overwhelming for me. There is too much information out there. So much so that I was
too intimidated to even buy one for a whole year, even though I live in Japan. The quality and variety of stones as well as the pricing is just crazy. I see fifty to sixty reasonably priced stones on Japanese auction sites every week but since there are so many to choose from and I do not know much about their characteristics or value, I give them a pass. I know that there must be some great bargains out there.

 

[MasterOfPups]

Slice had some good points. If your slurry management is on point, you should get a great edge off the stone with proper stropping. I usually finish up by taking 20 very light strokes on the stone, 20 strokes on the heel of my hand, then repeat several times until the edge is where I want it. Stropping on your hand or on a proper strop will make a big difference at that stage of the game. By alternating stone and strop, you can push an edge to see what the stone is really capable of.

 

[Sukeroku]

Slice had some good points. If your slurry management is on point, you should get a great edge off the stone with proper stropping. I usually finish up by taking 20 very light strokes on the stone, 20 strokes on the heel of my hand, then repeat several times until the edge is where I want it. Stropping on your hand or on a proper strop will make a big difference at that stage of the game. By alternating stone and strop, you can push an edge to see what the stone is really capable of.

I have never tried hand stropping. It seems a little scary but I will give it a go.
I have a Kanayama 90000 that has about 500 days worth of stropping already
so I think I am set there. I have been watching the Youtube videos posted by Keith,
Lynn and Dr. Matt. I always appreciate good advice. Thank you (and Slice)!

 

[xuzxuz]

Re: the dangers of hand stropping ...

Hand stropping is so 1999, the modern men prefer the thigh stropping.
More surface, less danger.
Like Miller Lite - Great Taste, Less Filling.

I took 2 years of Japanese in college and consider myself conversant.
I, however, learned that speaking utterly broken Japanese and resorting to English gets me better deals.
The uncomfortable nature of the situation often leads them to offer deals to defuse the social tension.
A quirk of Japanese service culture centered around politeness, I reckon.

 

[R7photo]

Congrats on your jnat, what type of stone is it?

 

[Sukeroku]

Congrats on your jnat, what type of stone is it?

Wakasa...