Horsehide for the win

[Muirtach]

I have only recently stared dabbling in hanging strops and purchased two vintage ones from Telly a short while ago. One was a large barber style "Old War Horse" which from the name and what I assume based off of reading about other horsehide strops is just that. A great very light draw strop that needed a little of leather restoration before use.

Well today I decided to try it out for the first time. Using my Dovo Ebony handle spike I did my normal stropping (25/50) and then did an extra 20 passes on the War Horse. After this shave that will become my new ritual. Pure bliss. 3 passes to a BBS so clean my face is shining while it normally takes me 4 and some touch up to reach this level. I have a coarse beard that is light on the sides and thicker around the mouth and neck. The normal difficulties I have on my chin (similar to George Lazenby's though not quite so cleft to tie into the 007 thread)were completely absent. The added touch the hide gave made the edge perfect.

Why didn't you guys tell me about this stuff before?

 

[TstebinsB]

I'm glad you liked them. I knew they were quality.

 

[Hawkeye5]

Why didn't you guys tell me about this stuff before?

Some people like heavier draw. Personally I'm a horse fan.

 

[Seraphim]

Telly sells only the finest stuff!

 

[mparker762]

Why didn't you guys tell me about this stuff before?

We did. It just gets lost in the noise from the latigo fans.

 

[lax1mxr]

I love Le Cordovan...which is the best part of the horse when it comes to the hide. Made from the Horses as_, literally. which is whyt shoes made of this stuff cost in excess of $500. You won't find strops made from this any longer (at least that I know of) simply because it is cost prohibitive. Probably not a big market for $300 strops. Also because there is only one company in the US that makes/extracts shell. The Horween Leather Company in Chicago. I believe most if not all of the shell goes to Allen Edmonds and Alden to make their cordovan shell shoes. So bascially, this stuff is made from unobtainium.

Anyhow, It is the best I have tried. I own a Craftsmen and a Dubl duck in Genuine Shell. A lot more drag that other types of hide. More drag=smoother shave. If you can find a strop that is made from "Cordovan Shell" or "genuine Shell" snatch it up.

 

[The Knize]

I love Le Cordovan...which is the best part of the horse when it comes to the hide. Made from the Horses as_, literally. which is whyt shoes made of this stuff cost in excess of $500. You won't find strops made from this any longer (at least that I know of) simply because it is cost prohibitive. Probably not a big market for $300 strops. Also because there is only one company in the US that makes/extracts shell. The Horween Leather Company in Chicago. I believe most if not all of the shell goes to Allen Edmonds and Alden to make their cordovan shell shoes. So bascially, this stuff is made from unobtainium.

Anyhow, It is the best I have tried. I own a Craftsmen and a Dubl duck in Genuine Shell. A lot more drag that other types of hide. More drag=smoother shave. If you can find a strop that is made from "Cordovan Shell" or "genuine Shell" snatch it up.

rasurpur cordovan, minus vat price $82.35 Euro http://www.rasurpur.de/english/shop/shop.html

What is the catch here? What am I missing? How can this strop at this price exist?

 

[gugi]

$115USD + shipping
Seems right to me, that's always been what these cost.

 

[The Knize]

$115USD + shipping
Seems right to me, that's always been what these cost.

Okay, so lax1mxr's post that my post quoted referencing $300 strops is off a bit?

 

[gugi]

lol, yeah I don't think the 300-500 figure was quite accurate.

of course you can pay that much even more depending on who you get it from, but a strop doesn't need to have the same uniformity as a Hermes belt for example.

 

[mparker762]

Okay, so lax1mxr's post that my post quoted referencing $300 strops is off a bit?

Before we found out about the Kaneyama strops the only other known cordovan strop was made by hand american and cost something like $280. I don't know if they still make it, but I do know that my Kaneyama is an amazing strop. The leather is the smoothest strop leather I have ever seen, and the linen side is hella stout, I measured it at 1/8" thick, and the leather side is somewhat thicker.

I'm a big fan of cordovan shoes btw - I've got four pairs of Alden cordovans. Nearly waterproof, shine like nobodys business, and only need waxing once or twice a year (which by itself makes cordovan worth the premium). I once read a comment from one of the Horween guys that Cordovan shoes used to be much rarer than they are today because cordovan was almost completely used in the manufacture of strops. It was only the decline in straight razors that freed up cordovan for use in shoes.

 

[TstebinsB]

Before we found out about the Kaneyama strops the only other known cordovan strop was made by hand american and cost something like $280. I don't know if they still make it, but I do know that my Kaneyama is an amazing strop. The leather is the smoothest strop leather I have ever seen, and the linen side is hella stout, I measured it at 1/8" thick, and the leather side is somewhat thicker.

Shell/cordovan strops are still readily available in Japan. Last year, I bought a bunch for a cheap price and sold them here. That was a random score though. They are normally expensive.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=56582

 

[Tony Miller]

Cordovan tanning can be applied to any type of hide. Horween produces the cordovan tanned leather on both horse butts and the actual oval shells used for the shoes. The ovals can be had from at least one reseller but typically run 16-17" long ( a bit short for a strop) and cost $100-200 an oval. The horse butt sections 46" or so long and 4" to 15" wide are far less expensive but each can yield anywhere from 4 to zero strops depending on surface quality. I use horse butts but not cordovan tanned.

Cordovan now days has become a very generic term, You can buy real cordovan shell shoes for hundreds or a pair of cowhide wingtips in a classic 'cordovan" color (burgundy) for $79. Not every horsehide strop is cordovan, and very few cordovan strops are from the shells. Old advertising and texts will also confuse the issue saying shell tanned, cordovan tanned, etc....

Tony

 

[lax1mxr]

So Tony, do you think that in days of yore, that both the front and butt sections were used to make a single strop,i.e. using the whole piece including the front/top oval? Is there really a difference in quality in terms of strop use anyhow?

It's my understanding that the front section (the top piece of the hindquarters) is the more desireable piece of hide, which confirms the higher price.

I will definitely agree though, that IMO horsehide is superior to cowhide for strops.

Tony, another question...What is the difference between scotch tanned and cordovan tanned??? Are both Vegetable based?? Which method do you use for your strops? Or do you use chrome tanning?

Thanks again for the education.

 

[lax1mxr]

rasurpur cordovan, minus vat price $82.35 Euro http://www.rasurpur.de/english/shop/shop.html

What is the catch here? What am I missing? How can this strop at this price exist?

http://www.handamerican.com/horse.html

I think this will explain it. Based on Tony's comments, I believe these are the pieces he uses. They are the pieces left over after the oval shells being removed. Still superior hide, just the the primo.

 

[The Knize]

http://www.handamerican.com/horse.html

I think this will explain it. Based on Tony's comments, I believe these are the pieces he uses. They are the pieces left over after the oval shells being removed. Still superior hide, just the the primo.

So is the bottom line that Kaneyama has the fabled cordovan strops for not too far North of $100, or that what Kaneyama has (is may be the better verb) is not really the fabled cordovan, but something similar?

I agree that all of my experiences with cordovan in shoes has been excellent. I remarkable leather.

Thanks.

 

[mparker762]

Hmm, well now I don't know.

The surface of my Kaneyama feels like my Aldens, smooth and almost plasticky. But it may be that this is just what cordovan-tanned horsehide feels like, and isn't some innate property of the shell itself.

 

[gugi]

i think there is a difference in the tanning.

i had one japanese cordovan strop that didn't have any of the plasticky thing, it was the softest strop i've ever seen and felt just as smooth when stropping. the canvas part was rather unusual it was very thick but very loosely knit.
since it was branded as a razor maker i traded it to a member who has that brand of razor and really wanted a matching strop.
the one i got in the trade was the shell with the plasticky surface. it's nowhere near as soft as the other one, probably comparable to most of the vintage shell strops that i've seen. its canvas side is rather thin. feels more like a grocery bag than a firehose, but it's folded so it's 2ply and that makes it more comparable to regular strop canvas.

i'm looking right now at two vintage shells and they do have that plsticky type of finish even though it's not as shiny anymore as on the new shell. i could extrapolate that they used to be like it when they were new.

 

[lax1mxr]

So is the bottom line that Kaneyama has the fabled cordovan strops for not too far North of $100, or that what Kaneyama has (is may be the better verb) is not really the fabled cordovan, but something similar?

I agree that all of my experiences with cordovan in shoes has been excellent. I remarkable leather.

Thanks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_cordovan

I think it's still part of the shell, just not the best part. It's still IMO better than cowhide.

There was some additional info on the hand american site that talked about in days prior that the entire hind section was used, shell, and all. I believe this to be true, as I have a vintage craftsmen two sided leather strop and one side says genuine shell horse hide, and the other just says genuine horse hide. HMMMMMMMMMM..

 

[mparker762]

I don't know if they still do, but they also used the shell from draft horses (Clydesdales, etc), which would have had huge shells.

My Kaneyama has the plastic-feeling surface like my Aldens, with leather that is a bit over 1/8" thick. The fabric strop is exactly 1/8" thick, and is not folded.