Honing a Gold Dolor 200 -Please Help-

[Rufflesnet]

Hi Guys,

I’m trying to make a Gold Dolor 200 blade shave ready. The blade cost me almost nothing and was brand new. I have read that it should be possible to get an good edge on this blade assuming its not warped etc.

I’m new to this but have watched and read almost everything I can.

I have the following hones. Its very hard to get hold of them in the Scotland so I was very limited.

• Japanese Combination Waterstone 1000/6000 grit (Ice Bear)
• Some generic 8000 grit white stone that feels much lower (didn’t use)
• Chinese 12k Natural

I have no idea how good these stones are but I have been trying and practicing for the last few weeks and not getting anywhere.

I decided at the weekend to try something drastic. At the toe end of the blade the bevel was un-even. I also was not sure if I was removing enough metal to set the initial bevel so I took the blade to a REALLY low grit stone (no idea how low, old chisel sharpening one) flattened the bevel completely to get rid of the unevenness and the slight curve on the toe.

So the blade now had no bevel but was completely flat. Now I worked for about an hour on the 1000 grit to recreate the bevel. I eventually got it sharp again and the bevel looked perfect. I continued to hone for about 50 laps more as light and evenly as possible until it could almost cut hairs on my arm (well rip them off). So I thought “Great its working”. I moved up to the 6000 as it’s the next finest stone I have. Worked for a long time on that and checked the bevel again. It looked very even, very shiny and perfect. So finally I polished up with the 12K with slurry and then without, stropped and tested it. The blade almost shaves but is no where near as sharp as a DE blade for example.

I went back to the 1000 and tried again thinking I had just not given enough attention at the lower grit but same result. I’m sure now since I completely recreating the bevel I have a good idea how fast this stone cuts but tried anyway. I think I have quite a good feel for the hones now. I don’t catch or dig into the hone and can use very light pressure and still have the blade completely contacted.

Does anyone know what I am doing wrong?? I know my hones are not the perfect combination but is it even possible to get a good edge going from 1000 > 6000??

Help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Ruffles

 

[chess1]

As you mention you do have a little hone problem. in the other hand you are trying to hone just one blade . it will take longer time but you should be ok to get job done.
Your razor can get sharp enough to give a good shave .
Your mistake is this .
you are trying to get edge similar to DE.
I don't know what example i have to tell you but i will say this.
i have honed a lot razor and may be only 1% will get DE sharpness edges.
Example 1000 blade only 10 will
Now if you are trying to do this Sorry you are out of luck.
You have done great work(i am not sure intentionally or not by not using your 8k stone)
your 1k to 6k in fact his will be almost 8k usa level will take a lot time.
then from 8k to 1k chinese i assume will take time too.
if you can add chro2 after chinese 12k i think you should be able to get a good shave from your hones.
But please don't expect you will get DE EDGE. HOPE THIS HELPS

 

[Rufflesnet]

Thanks chess1,

I should have mentioned that the hones are off eBay. I’m not sure if they are good or not. The reason I haven't used the 8K is because it feels as course as if not more course than the 1000K. It’s maybe softer I have no idea but gave it a miss because i don't want extra problems.

How do you mean the 1k/6k will be almost 8K USA? Do you mean the difference in grading on a Japanese Stone?

Ok lol I suppose I was being a little optimistic with the DE comparison though I’m sure this blade could be sharper than it is. It won’t really cut a hanging hair.

At least you have made me a bit more confident that my hones are not totally useless. I will keep trying. Thanks.

 

[LarryAndro]

The Gold Dollars I have honed became shave ready. However, they never were as sharp as most vintage blades' sharpness. And, they certainly required more frequent stropping. They were difficult razors to hone, and required a different approach.

You are right to hone lightly, more lightly than a typical straight razor blade. The approach I finally settled on was to hone the blade to quasi sharpness on the 1K. But, not to cut arm hair sharpness. If I pushed honing to this level, it seemed to me that the edge degraded later at about 5K.

At every hone after the 1K I honed to slightly less than the usual sharpness for that hone. My strategy was to increase sharpness progressively as I progressed thru the hones. Finally, on the 12K I moved the sharpness to the final level.

Also, after 5K... on the 8K and 12K... I used such light pressure as to be almost not honing!

Using the above technique, I got the Gold Dollars to shave readiness. But, let me be honest. I have no confidence that the above procedure is the best approach for these razors. It worked though.

And, by the way, I don't know if I have ever gotten an edge on a straight razor as sharp as a double edge blade. Straight razors shave differently, require different techniques, and in fact I wouldn't want them to be as sharp as a double edge blade. Sharp. But, if they were as sharp as a DE blade, I wouldn't like the shave at all!

 

[Blue58]

Thanks chess1,

I should have mentioned that the hones are off eBay. I’m not sure if they are good or not. The reason I haven't used the 8K is because it feels as course as if not more course than the 1000K. It’s maybe softer I have no idea but gave it a miss because i don't want extra problems.

How do you mean the 1k/6k will be almost 8K USA? Do you mean the difference in grading on a Japanese Stone?

Ok lol I suppose I was being a little optimistic with the DE comparison though I’m sure this blade could be sharper than it is. It won’t really cut a hanging hair.

At least you have made me a bit more confident that my hones are not totally useless. I will keep trying. Thanks.

Welcome to B&B Ruffles,

OK the first thing is... forget the hanging hair test ... yes it is possible to get a blade that sharp but then the edge is too fine to be used for shaving and will dull almost instantly and make hamburger of your face... the best test of a razors sharpness is when the blade can shave hair on the inside of your forearm very comfortably..

I believe what chess1 was trying to say is that your 6k stone is very close to an 8k stone so it should work ok.. however because you make a big jump from 1k to 6k grit and then another big jump from 6k to 12k you will need to take more time on the hone at each of those steps. Although you can not see it with the naked eye there are very fine scratches from the hone that are too small to see and these scratches have to be polished out by honing and stropping, so it will just take time and patients. it sounds to me like you are doing all the right things you just need to do it longer at each step because you are taking such big steps each time. (1000 grit to 6000 grit then to 12000 grit) You might consider adding a 4000 grit and an 8000 grit hones to complete the process. 1k, 4k, 6k, 8k, 12k, strop.

I might also ask .. are you using a strip of electrical tape on the spine of the blade so you don't also hone the spine as well? The tape also increases the angle just a bit which will give you a better edge that will last longer.

Next but not least, always strop a blade after you finish honing it... this will remove any remaining metal from the edge that is left from honing. It also gives the blade a final polish that can not be done on a stone. it will make all the difference in the world.

I might also suggest that you invest in hones you can get here in B&B that you know will be the proper grit and will be level. what you buy on ebay is anyone's guess as to its grit or quality. check in the B/S/T forum you might find someone that has a good starter kit for honing they want to sell or trade. As for that 8000 grit hone you have now... save it for your chisels my guess is that its a 800 grit and will work fine for chisels and such.

 

[Huxley]

Honestly id save yourself the trouble and buy a good cheap vintage, you'll find it'll be easier than honing a gd.

I too can hone a gd incredibly sharp and yet it still doesn't shave me as good as an old vintage, and like larry says it requires a different approach though you shouldn't be spending an hour on bevel setting, just remember to get both sides fairly even. If you see one side with a smaller bevel then give that a few more laps.

I started honing on a gd and tbh i wish id started on a better razor, id suggest you do the same before you go spare.

 

[Rufflesnet]

Hi Blue58,

Thanks for the welcome. Im definitely not aiming for DE sharp now. I managed to get a shave of that GD finally. I think i'm looking for sharper because I have been shaving with a shavette with feather blades. I now understand from your replies that i'm never going to get close to that sharpness.

I think you are right about the 8k being an 800. In comparison to the other stones I would say if feels about 800, though it was labelled 8000 and sold as such. Im planing to get a 4K Ice Bear King stone of EBAY this is the same make as my 1k/6k. Have you heard of this make??

Oh and no I didn't use any tape at all.

Huxley,

I will take your advice. I will buy a save ready vintage, probably from The invisible edge as soon as I can.

Also I should maybe point out that I only spent 1 hour setting the bevel because I went crazy and ground about a half mm (nearly the entire bevel) off the blade vertically on a very course hone in an attempt to flatten the blade. It did work but I wouldn't have done it with a nicer blade.

 

[taffy]

I am having trouble with gd, been ok with vintage straights, but the gd is a pain, ice bear/king are popular stones.

 

[jtrops]

I'm sure that my inexperience is the culprit, but I haven't had a difficult time honing my GD's. I have a couple of vintage blades, and a Dovo "best quality" that seem to be pretty much the same as far as honing.

The one problem I had with my GD208 was a pronounced shoulder that lifted the blade off of the hone. A quick grind with the Dremel took care of that problem; otherwise it has been easy to work with. My 200 didn't have the shoulder problem, and the edge came along quickly. I will say that the bevels on the GD's aren't as even as my nicer razors, and I didn't try to fix that. I figured that the razors aren't pretty, and as long as I could get a functional edge from them I'd be happy. As it turns out I'm pretty happy with them. Happy enough that I may rescale one of them, and spend a bit more time getting the bevels even. In fact, I am prefering both of them to my Dovo which I may sell due to lack of use.

I'm using DMT plates. The 1200 is the perforated variety, and the 8k is the continuous. It may be that the diamond hones make it easier, but I wouldn't know having never used traditional water hones.

 

[Rufflesnet]

I have been reading all your replies and thank for the feedback.

I finally got myself a vintage razor of eBay. It has quite a smile on at the toe end but I kind of like it.

I honed it in about 10 minutes and it passed the HHT easy and shaved great. This leaves me stumped. I tried the GD again and when I was very very careful and a bit lucky I got it some of the blade sharp. When I tried again, none of it is sharp enough IMHO.

The vintage blade even felt completely different on the hones especially the 12K Chinese. I could feel the stone cutting the blade. The GD felt softer and more like it was skimming over the stone rather than being cutting it.

I don’t understand why I can easily hone the vintage to really keen edge but I can’t get the GD sharp. The even under the microscope the edge looks almost identical to the vintage. I have definitely set the bevel completely and beyond.

So many people are saying the GD’s will sharpen well. I hope it’s not just me. Could it be that I have the only GD 200that won’t get sharp? I doubt it.

I think I will let someone else have ago at it when I get a change and see if it is just me of the blade.

 

[taffy]

I am managed to get my gd to shave, though it took me ages, though its not as good as the vintage razors i have honed shave wise, again, like you, this may be my lack of experiance, well done on your vintage razor

 

[LarryAndro]

... So many people are saying the GD’s will sharpen well...

I think the consensus of the straight razor community is that Gold Dollars can be honed to shave readiness. I don't think our consensus opinion is that they "will sharpen well."

I believe your honing experience with the GD, as you described in your last post, is fairly accurate.

• The metal is softer.

• It hones differently than vintage.

• It can't be honed to as good an edge as a vintage razor.

It can be used for shaving though.

 

[Oglethorpe]

Not to start another GD debate, but my experience with gold dollars is that they hold and keep an edge just as long as any other razor (and longer than some). You might as well hear both sides of the story.

 

[global_dev]

Not to start another GD debate, but my experience with gold dollars is that they hold and keep an edge just as long as any other razor (and longer than some). You might as well hear both sides of the story.

Hallelujah.. you've put some inspiration into this thread for me, as i was feeling kinda sad after reading peoples experience getting a shave ready GD after being told it was a good-enough intro experience into straights.

 

[taffy]

I have read a lot about these razors, and they do get mixed reviews, some luv em, others hate them, i can shave ok with my little 108, and considering it cost me all of $5.00, including p & p, i am not going to grumble to much.

 

[Thebigspendur]

I don't want to start the debate again either but where the GDs are concerned there is great variation from piece to piece. Some are poor and some are great. Some are straightforard to hone and some a real bear and some near impossible.

 

[natchez]

I just posted a review of the GD, which I used exclusively for a two week+ trip back east to visit family: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2291598&postcount=10

I did not go into the honing details in the review, but it was a different animal than the other razors I have honed. I have only done about ten razors to date, but they all took a shave-able edge, save one. What I have honed include two GD's, Henckels, Genco, Torrey and a few Sheffield blades.

The GD was very different as Larry pointed out. First, I had to remove a heel spur, so the razor could actually meet the hone along the entire length. Then, I used a 1K Norton stone to set a bevel. It took almost an hour of very, very light strokes. I learned from the first GD to put almost no pressure whatsoever on the blade. The steel feels very soft on all the hones. When it felt like I was making no progress the pressure was right. I did hone it until it cut arm hair on the 1K.

I then moved to a coticule for the rest of the finishing and found again light to no pressure worked. I used the dilution method, adding water every 20 strokes or so. Then, when I felt it was as keen as it was going to get, I stropped the heck out of it. Maybe 60 on the linen side and 120 on the leather. I don't used pasted strops, so I was left with just the regular strop.

This seemed to work well and the edge is quite shave-able and has held up better than I expected. Since you are using 1K, 6K and C12K, my guess is that you will be able to get a good usable edge. I think it will take a lot of time on the C12K, well over 100 strokes. I did like the suggestion that you stop each hone just before it reaches the ultimate keenness until the last hone. That may be a good method and I will try it with my next GD.

I find that 30 minutes at a time is good for honing. Beyond that I seem to lose concentration and have some trouble with my strokes. Of course, YMMV. But, after I was done the edge was actually quite nice. But, overall I would have to say that the GD was harder to hone than the vintage blades I have done.

Good luck- let us know how you do.

 

[Seraphim]

I've experienced one Gold Dollar out of about 50 that WOULD NOT get a shave ready edge. When viewed under the scope it showed it was crumbling.

You may indeed posess a dud like that.

Here:

I also had a vintage Sheffield that had the very same problem (perhaps due to teh previous owner tryuing to remove rust with a belt sander causing overheating or something? I don't know, but that razor would not take an edge either).


For me, I like to use fairly firm pressure when bevel setting on these, as I'm looking for bulk material removal (what bevel setting is all about initially). I use a DMT 1200 for that step.

For me, I have often been able to get an edge that is as good as most any vintage razor, but perhaps that is born out of a greater familiarity with the faults and foibles of the GDs?

 

[LarryAndro]

For the moment, let's assume the Gold Dollar hones to shave readiness fully as good as vintage razors. The fact that so many report additional honing difficulty compared to vintage razors, and that additional honing time is required, is significant to some I think. To someone who hones a lot of razors, that is significant. To someone who hones a razor or two for themselves, time is not as important.

 

[Bayamontate]

I have three, two GD and one DA (all Seraphim customs) that shave great and have held the edge extremely well. Supposed quality of steel, don't care, cheap scales and wierd shoulders, don't care, crooked tangs, you guessed it, don't care, other people's opinion of them, really don't care, I pay Craig to worry about that. My GDs and DA shave and look great and from where I stand, that's all that really matters.