Hole for a 22mm tgn supesilvertipknot
- Thread starter sicknote
- Start date
Hey Timo, how are you?
If you just bought the knot from TGN, it would be best to wait until it comes in the mail before doing any drilling.
I have found that TGN's 22 mm knot will actually fit quite well into a 20 or 20.5mm hole, as measured with my digital calipers. I'm not sure how Tony measures each of his knots, but I find that they generally fit into a hole that is 1-2 mm SMALLER than the size of the knot. And even if the knot does not quite fit into the hole, I have found it is better to grind the knot a bit to make it a little smaller, rather than making the hole a bit bigger. The knots can be sanded down and shaped very easily without hurting their integrity.
In other words, I would NOT use either a 24 or 25 mm Forstner bit for a 22 mm TGN knot, as I believe that the hole made by even the 24 mm bit would be much too big.
If you just bought the knot from TGN, it would be best to wait until it comes in the mail before doing any drilling.
I have found that TGN's 22 mm knot will actually fit quite well into a 20 or 20.5mm hole, as measured with my digital calipers. I'm not sure how Tony measures each of his knots, but I find that they generally fit into a hole that is 1-2 mm SMALLER than the size of the knot. And even if the knot does not quite fit into the hole, I have found it is better to grind the knot a bit to make it a little smaller, rather than making the hole a bit bigger. The knots can be sanded down and shaped very easily without hurting their integrity.
In other words, I would NOT use either a 24 or 25 mm Forstner bit for a 22 mm TGN knot, as I believe that the hole made by even the 24 mm bit would be much too big.
+1, although I would probably still drill your 24mm hole in a piece of scrap wood to try it before I rushed off to buy a new knot or drill bit.
Or you can do what I do . . .
1. drill the hole without knowing the correct size
2. order the knot from TGN with only a guess about what will actually fit in it
3. get the knot in the mail and find out, for the first time, that there's no way in this universe that the knot will fit into the hole
4. cry and beg until Tony takes back the first knot in exchange for a second one that will fit
5. repeat two or three times until I get a knot that fits just right
6. realize that, with all of the added shipping, I could have raised my own badgers, skinned them and made my own knot in less time than it took to get the right knot for the brush!!
1. drill the hole without knowing the correct size
2. order the knot from TGN with only a guess about what will actually fit in it
3. get the knot in the mail and find out, for the first time, that there's no way in this universe that the knot will fit into the hole
4. cry and beg until Tony takes back the first knot in exchange for a second one that will fit
5. repeat two or three times until I get a knot that fits just right
6. realize that, with all of the added shipping, I could have raised my own badgers, skinned them and made my own knot in less time than it took to get the right knot for the brush!!
Jeff,
So you would suggest ordering a larger measurement knot than the actual opening? I ask because I have a handle with a 26mm opening, and I'd really love to be able to put in a 28mm knot that I could use to lather my face or paint a garage door.
So you would suggest ordering a larger measurement knot than the actual opening? I ask because I have a handle with a 26mm opening, and I'd really love to be able to put in a 28mm knot that I could use to lather my face or paint a garage door.
TGN says that their knot sizes generally run the stated knot size minus 1mm with a +/- of half a mm. Others have stated that the extra stuffed act like larger knots. I guess it depends on how deep you want to set it? Thought I'd just throw that out there.
Regards.
Regards.
Yeah, the depth that you want the knot to sit definitely makes a difference, as it seems like, when looking just at the diameter, these knots are kind of cone-shaped. In other words, they seem to have the smallest diameter at the very bottom, then they get wider by 1-2 mm as you move upwards, until you get about 5 mm or so above the glue plug.
If you have a handle with a 26 mm hole, that is a HUGE hole, and I would definitely order a 28 mm knot from TGN for it. The reason is as follow:
1. a 28 mm knot is going to be close to 26 or 26.5 mm at the base anyway.
2. it is very easy to make the collar opening a little bit wider by sanding with a Dremel tool. In fact, most collar openings have a bit of a lip that makes the opening narrower than the inside diameter of the collar, so sanding away at this lip is easy and does not hurt the structure or appearance of the brush. The lip is part of how these old brushes were put together -- knot was slipped into a collar and held in place by the lip, then glue applied, then the collar/knot/glue combo was screwed onto the handle.
3. even if you don't want to sand down the lip, you can easily make a larger knot fit into a smaller hole by sanding down the knot at bit at the edges. It is easy to do and does not harm the structure of the knot.
4. if you have a knot that is slightly too big for the hole, it is easily fixed; if you have a knot that is slightly too small for the hole, there's nothing you can do about it.
Good luck!
If you have a handle with a 26 mm hole, that is a HUGE hole, and I would definitely order a 28 mm knot from TGN for it. The reason is as follow:
1. a 28 mm knot is going to be close to 26 or 26.5 mm at the base anyway.
2. it is very easy to make the collar opening a little bit wider by sanding with a Dremel tool. In fact, most collar openings have a bit of a lip that makes the opening narrower than the inside diameter of the collar, so sanding away at this lip is easy and does not hurt the structure or appearance of the brush. The lip is part of how these old brushes were put together -- knot was slipped into a collar and held in place by the lip, then glue applied, then the collar/knot/glue combo was screwed onto the handle.
3. even if you don't want to sand down the lip, you can easily make a larger knot fit into a smaller hole by sanding down the knot at bit at the edges. It is easy to do and does not harm the structure of the knot.
4. if you have a knot that is slightly too big for the hole, it is easily fixed; if you have a knot that is slightly too small for the hole, there's nothing you can do about it.
Good luck!
There are many ways to skin this ca
Badger. If you make a hole that is too large you could try to make a sleeve or bushing to fill the difference. You could find a metal ring to fit the hole, or if the ring was a little too large you could cut the side to remove some of the circumference so that when you insert it into the hole in the handle that the cut will be forced together. You will still have a split in the bushing, but if you size it right it could close the gap.
You could fill the hole in your blank / brush handle with epoxy (even color the epoxy with some pigment) and insert a mandrel that you have turned to the same size as your knot into the epoxy to make the bushing. You would have to coat the mandrel with something that will not stick to the epoxy, Teflon, wax or some type of release film. After the epoxy cures you remove the mandrel and you have an epoxy bushing. If you used a colorant it will be a decorative bushing.
If you are making your handle out of wood, you will probably be drilling into the end grain. Holes tend to come out a lot cleaner in end grain so you can get away with drilling with a cruder bit than a forstner bit. I took an inexpensive paddle type of bit that was slightly larger than I wanted and ground it down to the correct diameter. I had to make sure that I ground an equal amount off of each side, but it worked.
I suppose if you were really good on the lathe you could fashion a chuck that would hold the brush handle on the back side and cut the hole on the lathe with a gouge or scraper.
Like I said, many ways to skin this badger.
You could fill the hole in your blank / brush handle with epoxy (even color the epoxy with some pigment) and insert a mandrel that you have turned to the same size as your knot into the epoxy to make the bushing. You would have to coat the mandrel with something that will not stick to the epoxy, Teflon, wax or some type of release film. After the epoxy cures you remove the mandrel and you have an epoxy bushing. If you used a colorant it will be a decorative bushing.
If you are making your handle out of wood, you will probably be drilling into the end grain. Holes tend to come out a lot cleaner in end grain so you can get away with drilling with a cruder bit than a forstner bit. I took an inexpensive paddle type of bit that was slightly larger than I wanted and ground it down to the correct diameter. I had to make sure that I ground an equal amount off of each side, but it worked.
I suppose if you were really good on the lathe you could fashion a chuck that would hold the brush handle on the back side and cut the hole on the lathe with a gouge or scraper.
Like I said, many ways to skin this badger.
All depends a bit how deep you are going to set the knot in the handle, i.e. what loft you are shooting for. Since most people set their knots deeper than just the glue plug (that is the diameter the knot size is referring to), a larger hole might be needed.
In my experience with a lot of the TGN knots in the last two years, I normally drill the hole about 2 mm larger than the nominal knot-size, sometimes even more if a very short loft is asked for. The knots "grow" quite drastically just above the glue plug, and most of my customer asking for a shorter loft. It was good advise to have your knot in hand first and check how it looks, if you need to set it deeper, than open up the hole.
In my experience with a lot of the TGN knots in the last two years, I normally drill the hole about 2 mm larger than the nominal knot-size, sometimes even more if a very short loft is asked for. The knots "grow" quite drastically just above the glue plug, and most of my customer asking for a shorter loft. It was good advise to have your knot in hand first and check how it looks, if you need to set it deeper, than open up the hole.
I have a simmilar problem, all this time I thought that my brush was a 22mm knot so I ordered a 22mm knot from TNG and the very next day I found a post stating my brush was a 24mm knot. I the new knot hasn't come it yet, and I am still using the old brush. I find the current brush too floppy, so if I just set the new knot deeper will this solve both my problems?
My other two choices are to drill out the old knot plug te hole with a dowel and redrill it to the proper size, or just order a proper sized knot for the old brush and a proper sized handle for the new knot. I wont try and get an exchange for my mistake.
My other two choices are to drill out the old knot plug te hole with a dowel and redrill it to the proper size, or just order a proper sized knot for the old brush and a proper sized handle for the new knot. I wont try and get an exchange for my mistake.
Tony at TGN is a real gentleman about giving exchanges if you've ordered the wrong size. I wouldn't ask him unless I really needed his help, but whenever I've asked, he's always come through for me. Just something to consider if you're out of options.
Hmmm, not necessarily.... I have a number of Tony's 28mm on hand. Just checked them and they range in actual diameter from 27mm to 28.5mm, so like Rudy says I wouldn't assume anything about the knots' size until you have it on hand.
