Gillette NEW question

[chamm]

I have two NEWs, a LC and a SC. (Both standard garden variety, as far as I know.) The LC will fit onto my SS Bulldog handle just fine, but the SC doesn't, because the gap between the humps on the bottom is just ever-so-slightly smaller, and the top of the handle doesn't fit snug up against the flat of the base plate.

I recall reading something about minor differences in that gap between NEW razors, and want to know, is it universal that the SC heads have a smaller gap than the LC ones? If I want to purchase a new LC, is there something that I can look for in an auction that will assure me that I get one with a larger gap? Or is it just "luck of the draw?" I'm eyeing a LC on a popular online auction site, and I'm willing to pay a little premium for it because it's specifically what I'm looking for, but is it possible I'll get it and not be able to use my SS handles?

None of them have date codes, and I don't know of a way to visually identify such a small difference in size. What can all of you NEW experts out there tell me about this issue? Thanks in advance!

 

[Mr_Smartepants]

I have a NEW SC and the distance between the "humps" where the handle mates is 8.5mm.
So while my iKon OSS handle won't fit, my EJ "Chatsworth" handle and custom "50-cal" handle does because I had the threaded end cut down to 8mm.

 

[chamm]

Yeah, half a millimeter sounds about right. And my turning lathe is in the shop.

So what I want to know is, is this a LC/SC thing, or a production date thing? If it's production date, is there a way to discern the two without having physical access to them and a micrometer.

 

[Jeff_H]

If you purchase an Otto Roth, which is a NEW long comb, you will have a wider gap. It will fit MOST modern handles, but not all. Otto Roth's can be had for not a lot of money. I got one completely replated by Krona Kruiser for $40. The only mondern handle it won't take so far is my Cadet handle, and I've even figured out how to make that work.

For the short comb, fear ye not. Simply take your favorite handle, insert blade and tighten the handle down on top of the center ridge. Don't tighten it with all your might, but nice and snug. It will not damage the razor plate in any way. I shave with my NEW SC like this every day. It still holds the cap snugly to the baseplate and keeps the razor alligned. No worries. My face is testament to the fact that it works.

Enjoy all the NEW's with this newfound information.

***** and as far as I know, all of the NEW SC's have the narrow gap. Never have seen or heard of one that doesn't. Oh, except the British 7 O'Clock I believe. I think it has a flat bottom.

 

[xillion]

If you can, buy English made Long Comb New heads. They are flat bottom, fit pretty much any handle, and they're fantastic shavers.

Here are my comparison images for reference. Notice that the US Short Comb and US Long comb heads in the first image have different sized openings. The nickle plated head on the right is smaller.

My Chromium New Norfolk set has a short comb new head with the smaller size opening. My normal bar handles do not screw down all the way to that head. The handle for the Norfolk is the shorty bar shown in the third image.

From the left: Ball End, Husky Bar flat shoulder, Husky Bar rounded shoulder, Common bar, Norfolk bar, Thin Long bar, Thin bar, Fat Tech, Thin Tech, Tuckaway.

 

[Krona Kruiser]

Yup, I've noticed that issue with "fit" on the SC's. Sometimes I find the SC NEW's mismatched with bar handles that don't fit it. It still works but can just doesn't look right and I'm worried about it slipping. For some reason I'm drawn to finding slim bar handles and just like their balance. Worse comes to worse, the ball end handles fit them. It also wouldn't hurt machining down a custom handle. If it's stainless or solid brass, it wouldn't hurt it.

 

[Teppanyaki]

I think that my short comb has a slightly wider opening than my long comb, so my current belief is that there are wider-necked short combs. Other suggestions I've seen are to use some kind of drill thingy (nemo's post has more details in another thread) or to get a Dremel and simply grind away a bit of the rib.

 

[mblakele]

So what I want to know is, is this a LC/SC thing, or a production date thing? If it's production date, is there a way to discern the two without having physical access to them and a micrometer.

Likely random, I think. The NEW razors were made by partly hand, and so they vary wherever the process allowed. For example the NEW Deluxe had a significant (2-mm) variation in how deep the teeth were cut out of the guard plate. As far as we have been able to tell, this variation does not seem to correlate with manufacturing date or anything else. Maybe there were two machinist stations where this work was done, and no one noticed that they were set differently.

 

[DrAwkward]

I have 3 US-style SCs and 3 US-style LCs, but I have no way of measuring the gap. They all look the same to me except for one of the LCs that was made in England (not to be confused with the UK-made raised flat bottom or twin I pin base plates).
Bottom line: I am inclined to believe mblakele's theory of random variation due to hand machining of the NEW heads. It is one of the things that makes the NEW great, but it also means that the heads are all slightly different.
The Tech heads were stamped out of sheet metal by the millions, while each NEW was individually machined by skilled craftsmen. Can you tell that I am biased?
Mostly, I use the English raised flat bottom NEW that will take any handle.
When I do use a US-style NEW, I just do what Jeff suggested in post #4. It doesn't look pretty, but it works fine.

 

[Laird]

I have a Canadian LC NEW like the one on the far right of Xillion's photo. It also has that somewhat deeper gold colored wash. Three of my handles will fit: The original ball end, the handle from my 1932 pat. triangle slot Fat Handle Tech (also made in Canada) and the small aluminum handle from a 1971 (R1) "Sportsman Tech" made in England. That handle looks like this http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/Tech/1967%20Tech%20England.JPG I have also noticed some currently manufactured razors that appear to have similar handles albeit with much simpler engraving such as the Lord Tech clone. My suspicion is that these handles will fit the smaller cut outs in the bottom of the LC NEW base plates. They also appear to be longer than the short Sportsman handle. They may not be heavy enough for everyone's liking, but may be a good solution. It's also worth noting that the UFO handle site states that the threaded ends of their handles taper to 8.5 mm to fit the Gillette NEW heads. Personally, I'd prefer to modify a stainless aftermarket handle if necessary, rather than a vintage piece of history. I hope this was of some help.

 

[Jeff_H]

Tonight, after I have slept a little more and worked all day, I will take a pic of my modern handles on a NEW SC where the gap is very narrow and the handles do not fit between the gap, yet tighten down very well and have worked for me well. I have never had one slip and have never damaged the base plate.

For me, since discovering I can tighten down on top of the ridge, I have not worried about what handle I use with mine. I pick the handle that I either want to try or that works best for me, and use that handle. I know this isn't the way the razor is "designed", but it works and greatly expands the number of handles I can use with my NEW's.

I have several variations of original Gillette handles. Common bar, thin bar, ball end....and I really don't care for any of them. If I had to choose one, it would be the common bar because it is a bit thicker. None are long enough for me and none have any significant grip compared to modern handles. I enjoy the deep knurling on modern handles like Cadet and Weber. It helps me hold onto the razor better. Of course, I have some nerve damage in my hands and as a result I have to be careful of the grip pressure I apply. Too much pressure trying to hold onto something results in a painful ending for me.

Pics tonight gents.

 

[dushea]

I'm waiting on my narrow-gapped SC to be replated, but I bought a Sabi T2 handle for it when it comes back. I'm also not a fan of the handles of the NEW's, but the T2 handle is chrome plated brass and not pot metal. Nice weight, looks great and has a cheap price tag - it's a great option if you're not opposed to putting another 20 bucks into the razor.